by PhillyRon
I’ve been doing a lot of reflecting as we wait for the release of both NCAA Football 12 and Madden NFL 12, and I couldn’t help but think about what has caused the competitive change from my generation (95-06) to what we have now.
Many people believe that the Madden Nation show and all of the excessive trash talking and name-calling started the downward spiral of tournament participation. Others believe the console split has been the biggest factor in declining tournament numbers. I agree with both of these to an extent but I believe the biggest factor is the background of the current player.
I was speaking with a few Madden Vets and asked them to look at the reason why we first played Madden. Back then we played because we wanted to emulate what we saw on Sundays and even outside playing in the neighborhoods or local parks. Many of the old heads (33+ years old) Madden players actually played some form of organized football. And those of us who played in the collegient ranks developed a higher sense of competitiveness while playing between triple sessions or even late at night in the dorms, for food.
What I’ve noticed that has been lost with the current generation of Madden player is an actual football background. It is safe to say that many of the current players came to football thru Madden. Back in the day, damn I sound old, we didn’t really have the video games and when we did get our Atari, Commodore or Nintendo the main games weren’t sports.
I remember on Atari the main games were Pit Fall, Kaboom and Pong. None of these could keep you tied to the screen if a football game was on, or if there was a pick up game at the playground or on the block. So the fact that we are actually in the era of Madden where people come to football thru it, that has had a huge impact on what we see today.
What’s lost?
Madden has no doubt brought some of the best schemes and competition to the live event and online stages. The only problem I see with the community is the understanding that comes from playing football or some form of team sport. Many of you hear us old folk talk about the comraderie of the past. When you play a team sport you understand that even with everyone working in unison it is possible that you can still lose. At no time is it acceptable to lose, but in a team sport it is also never acceptable to degrade or mouth off at the team that just beat you. Players who do that never get the lesson they are supposed to learn from a loss.
In sports, and also in Madden you have to be able to deal with a loss. There is no place for “You’re a bum, let’s play again for real, wasn’t nothing on the line” excuses. Those statements tell you that you need to be more prepared because your opponent came strong and you didn’t. Every loss is supposed to make you better, if you choose to learn from it. Arrogance and cockiness will keep you from reaching your full potential in anything you do. That doesn’t mean you wont be successful at times, but it does mean you will never be consistent.
What are your thoughts about the direction the Madden Community is going in? Comment below and let us know what you think!
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I appreciate all of the input. Lets keep this discussion going.
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One advantage VG has always had over the other Madden sites: The guides you get from the authors here aren’t just a few money plays for $20 or endlessly searching youtube. You get theory in regards to that year’s iteration of the game that apply to whatever playbook you wanted to go with. The compressed offense, marrying routes, etc. The VG guides were always chock full of how to apply the theories that work in the game to a point where you don’t need to scalp money plays from other people – you learn enough about the game to develop your own. It isn’t just "run this, it works"…. it’s more like "this works because of that, that’s why we run it and here are some other ways you can use it."
It will be interesting to see what happens with the addition of custom playbooks. Now you can take those theories and really apply them with every play you decide to put in your playbook.
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A lot of good points in this thread.
* The failure of the game to get up to speed on next gen compared to old gen
* the saturation of Madden help sites/blogs/videos via the internet
(back in the day there were only a few. VG, MA, MM, MN, and the one where all the tourney ballers hung out I forget the name.)
Some of madden is copycat strategy. Reaching the masses and broadcasting the best plays, playbooks, techniques takes away that edge of uniqueness. One player could play a certain way, while another could use his own strategy. It seems now most people do the same things and play the same style of game that they found on the web.
The features that the game lacks has a lot to do with this as well. You can only do so much with the tools EA has given you to work with.
The playbooks are incomplete, flawed, short, and too similar all at the same time.
* EA setting up the game to focus on novice players being able to compete with more skilled players
Lastly, when NExt Gen emerged, Madden was one of the best (if not the best) game on PS2/XBox. Yet when it arrived for PS3/360 it was terrible. If you’re starting point is TERRIBLE and you’re trying to get to GOOD, it’s going to take a long time to get there. They put no effort into Next Gens game. Having no competition to push you is part of the reason.
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Ron.. another contributing factor is EA failing on the NG versions. It’s been "catch up to what we had on the PS2" ever since. It’s 2011 and we’re just now getting things like custom playbooks.
Also, EA paying more attention to newcomers than the base they had to try to make the game "easier" to learn and play. That’s not a road they needed to go down at all. It’s been one step forward, 2 steps back for too long. EA needs to re-dedicate themselves to the game.
Now, they are going with the new motto "True to the game" – that’s a lot to live up to and I’m not sure that’s a claim they want to make right now.
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Going beyond the community and into the actual game iself, I believe fear has also had a major impact.
Games have moved forward very quickly. If you compare the games of 5 years ago to the games of today, you notice a huge difference – but with Madden, the differences are subtle. This, I believe, is because EA is fearful of losing Madden’s longtime fanbase if they stray too far from the older games that were so popular.
This year, I expect that trend to be bucked – but they need to add in even more aspects of the game – and continue to add more aspects every year. Removing the suction blocking and improving the AI is a huge step, but there is still more to be done. Here are my immediate suggestions…
1) Revamp the interface between blockers and defenders. I know that it has already been done by removing suction blocking, but specific block animations, and block-shedding and pass-rushing manuevers to counter them, must be implemented to reach even higher levels of game immersion and realism. A pass rushing DE like Dwight Freeney and a MLB like Ray Lewis both shed blocks, but certainly not in the same way. A simple way to achieve this would be to separate the ratings for this for running and passing situations, but specific animations and button presses to access these animations will also be needed. Furthermore, AI additions so that cpu controlled players can access them as well – are also necessary. In addition, a HB like Darren Sproles should only offer mild resistance or need to cut block bigger players like Terrell Suggs and Albert Haynesworth – and WR shouldn’t barely be able to even make a difference in impending their movement, unless it is a bigger WR who has it within their skillset to block, like a Hines Ward.
2) Create individual AI’s for defenders. For example, Asante Samuel and and Darrelle Revis both play CB – but they certainly do not play it the same way.
Asante Samuel plays back to set up opposing QBs to make big-time interceptions while Revis studies the WRs he has to cover so that he can match them step-for-step and turn-for-turn. Neither even sees the game the same way. Individual AI’s would go a long way in establishing an NFL authentic feel.
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Dudes these days need to get out more and socialize in person, talk to people etc. We will be hosting a $5,000 guaranteed event in October. The event will be LIVE and in person. SIM and FREESTYLE. 360 and PS3. Cant beat that.
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Good piece Ron but lets face facts the gamming industry has change. The days of having at home madden tournaments have gone and now you really dont know who you playing. Plus with the many differnt madden sites all saying they can help you improve your game the new gen player either buy a ebook or go to youtube and find a few moves and be done with it. There is no such thing as a good loser or fair play sportsman ship has all but vanish from the game.
It just a win at all cost and how much you can either glitch or dogg a guy that what guys are looking for or to do. I mean i just saw a post where a guy says he scores 140 points a game against the computer and brag about it.
It is nice that you have done this post back in today game players arent looking for a competive game any more. They are looking for a blowout and a way to make a statement and that it. But it was good for you to take the time to say something about this issuse Peace ALC
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Ron
Your passion is amazing.
Let’s make this Madden 2012 season the best off all time !
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I dunno. It never crossed my mind about people creating plays vs. plays in the game.
I can take all the best plays from the entire game and throw them into 1 playbook?
So I can have any formation I want in one playbook?
Playbooks should have strengths and weaknesses. They should be built with strategies in mind and/or centered around the roster of the team itself.
I liked the idea of Custom playbooks a few years ago, but I think that would be handing over the keys to the castle.
Once again EA takes the easy way out of just fixing the depths on the existing playbooks.
Madden is an offensive game. Always has been. When the game 1st comes out, it takes some time to adjust to how the defense plays, but a few months in, it’s an offensive explosion.
I don’t see why there’s a need to create such a major change like Custom Playbooks while most of the defensive plays are the same exact plays from PS2.
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Yea, and you mentioned in your previous post about how lame the playbooks have been. I like the custom playbook idea tho since it only uses plays available in the game. It isn’t allowing for Custom Plays (another PS2 feature although that and Custom Playbook wasn’t allowed for online play). Allowing people to use Custom Plays would really suck because you’d definitely see exploitation.
As for the custom playbooks themselves, I’m gonna hold EA to their word of "True to the Game". If it’s really going to be true to the game then it’s going to be fun. If it’s just more marketing jargon then they are going to get hammered by everyone who buys the game and plays online. They are rolling the dice with an actual feature instead of some fluff BS, I’ll give them a little credit for that and we’ll see what happens. NCAA 12 will give us a preview on this before the Madden drop on 8/30
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While it’s true that VG writers make the game deeper — people are lazy. They want "show me what works." That’s why those other types of sites/blogs stay competitive.
Custom playbooks is asking for trouble imo. You looked at it as, you can take theories and apply them. But we know better than that. People are going to exploit that feature to the fullest.
Not sure why they would do this, while defensive playbooks have been stale and stagnant for such a very long time.
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I think the biggest issue is that the Madden team tries to cater to everybody, instead of the hardcore.
I use to go to practice mode and put in many hours to be ready for my opponents, but its not worth it because EA afforded them short cuts.
The only way EA can win back the core guys is to go back to.their roots. Every year I anticipate that do and get a big fat sike!
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This is a little off topic, but how about marrying plays within the audibles. As we all know each set has specific audibles, but certain plays should have there own automatic audible for that play when called. For ex… we have the power O called, but we all know the PA play set to that formation isn’t the PA power O. Lets have that audible married to that play when called instead of wasting in audible just to have that specific PA in our audible.
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I think what will lead the Madden scene back to a resurgence is to close the divide between "Sim" and "Freestyle" players. The reason why the fighting game community has thrived is because there isn’t a divide amongst the players outside of skill level. In all fighters, everyone knows that they can or cannot do and information is shared amongst everyone (SRK.com is one the only fighting game sites out there for tourney level players). The Madden scene has different sites for different types of players.
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It’s awesome to see guys coming together to talk about Madden. I can’t wait to see what custom playbooks brings to the game.
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I could be wrong, but after reading the replies to your post, I’m fairly certain that your message was somehow lost in the translation… ???
In either case, I agree with what I think you’ve said but unfortunately it’s an “All About Me” world.
Todays gamer seems to feel better when he’s able to not only win but embarrass his competition in the process. Don’t get me wrong, trash talking is part of the game but football as well as any other sport is not only about winning.
Once upon a time, it also included competition, camaraderie, team work, respect for the opponent (on any given day), and respect for the sport.
At the end of any game the loser should be able to shake the winners hand and say good game, but your ass is mine on the next go-round.
The winner should be able to say, good game and I’ll be here when you return with more of the same whip-ass-plus you got today.
It’s supposed to be “All Good”
– oops I dated myself there
Izzz Zout
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The game faced 2 big problems 1st it was not a good product and 2nd online play hurt the community. There was no need for guys to get together and play with online available. I think this years game will cause more people to want to play in tourneys and leagues. The BFL is still as strong as ever and I am hoping for that number one pick…
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