Wishbone or Flexbone for 2005?

[Illinilax]

Does anyone have a preference between the two in 2004?2005?

It seems in 2004 the flexbone gives u the advantage because u can flip the play without the def knowing?

But if i'm correct that won't matter in 2005. U can flip the play reguardless without adjusting the alignment of the formation.

[mad_bomber]

I'd lean towards the Wishbone Tight formation. Most will agree that it's very tough to defend. I'm hoping EA fixes some of the issues with the flexbone.

[kbell97]

Wishbone Tight all the way.

[CrazyOldGuy]

I'm a huge double slot guy... so I like flex.

I really love the FB Lead and HB Sweep plays. If anyone is familiar with the "FLY SWEEP" its the closest I can get to it in this game.
The fly sweep is where a receiver...most often from the slot, goes in full sprint motion across the formation and receives the handoff from the QB. Many teams uses this play now I've seen Texas Tech, Purdue and Florida use it. I saw a high school team running it well over 10 years ago, then Wyoming (the "triple shoot" and D3 Willamette University bases their whole offense around the play. When we had a play editor I was able to recreate this play almost perfectly.

I've tinkered with trying to turn the triple option into it, alas I can't ge the qb to flip the pitch fast enough to make it more of a fly instead of an option.

Don't get me wrong I love the old reliable Wishbone, its just with the limited playbooks I could not find a playbook I like enough that had the wishbone and the passing formations I wanted.... thankfully its look like that is no longer going to be a problem... maybe now I can run all those Shotgun sets, flexbone and wishbone!!

[mad_bomber]

Cog I remember you mentioning your fly sweeps at NCAA Strategies. Have you figured out a way to get this to work with Madden's play editor?

[Bronco]

Originally posted by mad_bomber
Cog I remember you mentioning your fly sweeps at NCAA Strategies. Have you figured out a way to get this to work with Madden's play editor?
Bomber, there's a guy over at Maddenmania named Bulldawg who totally figured this stuff out. He even had a website called "Coaches Office" which was dedicated specifically to created playbooks. More specifically, the guy found ways to create some really inovative stuff, including fly sweeps, motion pitches, double fakes...all kinds of specials. Unfortunately his website is currently down, or I'd provide the link. I imagine it'll be back up when Madden comes out. I hope so - it was very well put together.

I'm certainly not taking credit for Dawg's techniques, but I'd be more than happy to teach anyone who is interested how to create these plays. It involves some time creating them, but they actually work when they should. I've created several quick end around plays for the inside slot WR in a bunch formation that are loads of fun.

[mad_bomber]

I'd really appreciate that. Do you use formation meshing by chance? When I do play Madden I like to use custom playbooks and those type of plays would be nice to have. I'm also hoping he puts that site up. I'm sure there's quite a few who share those sentiments.

[Bronco]

Yes, 'formation meshing' would probably be the best way to describe it. Here's the jist of it: basically, all we are doing is tricking our QB into thinking that he's handing the ball off to a RB, when in actuality it will be to a Wing Back, H-back, or even a WR. This can be a time consuming process, but once you get the process down, creating these types of plays becomes second nature.

Moreover, you will be able to send the player in motion prior to the hand off.

For example, lets say I want to create an end around to a bunched player (R in this example). But to jazz things up a little bit, I'm going to motion him first:

............X.....OOOOOY................
.........Z............Q........................
....................R...........................
.......................H........................

After "R" is sent in motion:

............X.....OOOOOY................
.........Z.....R.....Q........................
...............................................
.......................H........................

The formation above was created simply by editing "Weak I Twins" - I just moved the "X" receiver's split inside in the formation editor. For those of you familiar with the Strong / Weak formations, you will remember that when the FB is sent in motion to the call side, he will align in a wing (H-back) postion.

After that, I changed the FB to RB2. Now, when I snap the ball, R will turn into the formation and the QB will hand the ball off to him, and end-around to the right.

Here's how it's done:

1) You must start with a formation that will allow for a handoff to a RB.

2) Create a basic run play, with the QB handing the ball off to one of the two backfield RBs. Keep in mind, you may be moving this player's allignment after we're done, or; you can leave him and motion him later. In the example above, I assigned a handoff to the FB in the original formation before I edited it - a HOP STEP off tackle right. As for the particular type of hand-off, it isn't all that important, but we want it so the QB turns to his right.

3) Still with me? Okay, now, we're going to take the FB (in this example) and procede to the formation editor. Once we're there, edit the FB's alignment so that he is in a WR position. Assign him as a WR - this is critical.

4) Now that the player is a WR, we can assign him a "pass" route. If we left him as a RB, the only option would be a blocking assignment. But, since the player is now a WR, we have the "pass route" option. In the end-around example above, I want my inside bunch player to run into the formation and procede around the end to the right. The QB is going to turn to his right, extend the ball, and R will run right to him and take the hand off. This will be a very quick hitting play.

5) In this example, the "pass" route we're going to assign is custom; draw his route at a slight downward angle, just behind the QB.

6) Back to the formation editor. In the example I showed you above, I'm going to move him back to the FB position. But since I want some speed, I'm going to assign him HB2. If you leave him as a WR, he won't execute the "pass" route properly if he's near the LOS - he'll always take a step forward first. But, once a back or TE is subbed back in, this issue is negated.

7) Now I go back to the create a play screen and test it out. I send the R-back in motion to the inside slot, snap the ball, and voila, the QB turns to his right and hands the ball off.

Once you get the basics of this process down, it goes pretty fast. You can create motion pitches, quick hand-offs to wing backs, even motion a WR to a quick handoff (though this one can be tough to execute).

Attached is what the play looks like.

[CrazyOldGuy]

Bomber,

No I wasn't able too get a good fly sweep or a good bubble screen in Madden (The receivers always run forward, I couldn't get them to run latterally or backwards), but all I can say now is HMMMMMMMMMMMM


Bronco... THANKS! Post the link anyway even if it doesn't work it would be worth trying to log in to see if the guy can get things going again. I'm printing up the your post right now so I can tinker with this idea......IS THIS GOING TO MAKE ME HAVE TO BUY MADDEN THIS YEAR? If you have any suggestions for a good bubble screen I'm all eyes....the only thing that I got that worked a little was deepening the slot guys...but it just didn't look right to me and also didn't really enhance any of the other routes I was trying to run.

One more question for the both of you...

Where did you get your play editor software that allows you put together those great graphics? A picture can be worth a million words!

[Bronco]

COG,

I don't know what Bomber uses, but I use Playmaker Pro 4.0...love it.

[mad_bomber]

That looks sweet Bronco. I'm going to try that out this evening. It's already given me some ideas on a few things to try.

COG as for how I diagram plays I use plan on old Photoshop. It's nice because I can save my formations as templates and I can draw player assignments and change them relatively easy.

[BullDwg34]

Originally posted by Bronco
Bomber, there's a guy over at Maddenmania named Bulldawg who totally figured this stuff out. He even had a website called "Coaches Office" which was dedicated specifically to created playbooks. More specifically, the guy found ways to create some really inovative stuff, including fly sweeps, motion pitches, double fakes...all kinds of specials. Unfortunately his website is currently down, or I'd provide the link. I imagine it'll be back up when Madden comes out. I hope so - it was very well put together.

I'm certainly not taking credit for Dawg's techniques, but I'd be more than happy to teach anyone who is interested how to create these plays. It involves some time creating them, but they actually work when they should. I've created several quick end around plays for the inside slot WR in a bunch formation that are loads of fun.

that's me... :)

and as for the site: moved to http://football-freaks.com/coach/index.htm - i cant say i really maintain it anymore, but all the knowledge is still there.

there are several tutorial videos up there if anyone is confused, Bronco did a good job explaining it, i havent messed with the play editor in ages myself, and probably wont until i get my hands on madden 2005. and thanks to him for getting me over there as well. :)

regarding the video clips: you need the DIVX fast-motion codec to view them,


here's (http://www.softpedia.com/public/scripts/downloadhero/11-2-2-12/) a download link for a package with the codec you need; it's a package of several, you can select which ones you want to install. the only one you need is "Coder & decoder DivX v3.11a (3.11Alpha Fast Motion)(Div4) for playing old compressed movies." - i wouldn't install anything else that you aren't sure about. i'm not an expert on video codec stuff, so if anyone has a better link, or whatever, feel free to post.

and if anyone is confused about anything, try shooting an email to bulldwg34@yahoo.com - i don't know if i'll be around here that much, i don't even own ncaa (dont own a console, but wish i could play NCAA). :(

video directory - http://football-freaks.com/coach/video/ - (the site's kinda unorganized, some of these are not linked).

[mad_bomber]

Looks very good.

[CrazyOldGuy]

Mad and Bronc....thanks for the info! and thank you again to Bronco for advising us of the existence of such a wonderful site.

Bulldwg! Thank you so very much for stopping by and giving all of us a new link. I must say I've only been perusing your great site for 30 seconds and there are things I'm drooling over! The hard work that you and so many others have put in is VERY MUCH APPRECIATED!!!! :)