Is analog blitzing cheese/cheating?

[jville]

I don't have film room but I know what and Analog blitz is. I understand that your just shifting and moving and that its realistic. But also if your doing and analog blitz your opponents is screwed. He can't tell is Oline to block someone and Its not his fault if they get confused and he can't do anything but get pressured. I'm not trying to jump on anyone but just would like to know what others think.

[TrojanNole]

This is been gone over and over in this forum. I'm not going to go into to deep in this, but I will answer it for you. I have been flamed and burned for my theories on this so here u go.

Is the analog blitz cheesey?
YES IT IS, BUT SO IS ALOT OF OTHERS THINGS IN THE GAME SO OPINIONS VERY. I WILL USE IT AGAINEST YOU, U CAN USE IT AGAINEST ME, WORK AROUND IT ADJUST TO IT. I these deep ball cheesy players, its a coming.

Moving ur linemen trying to find gap or AI flaws is cheesey.
YES AND NO, THE WAY I SEE IT. NO.
I posted this comment about on a earlier thread here it is:

I dont think people stop playing online because of the AB. I just dont see that many threads of people complaining about it. Glitchers, thats a REAL PROBLEM and an whole new thread.
As for being cheesy, everyone has a different story on what is cheesy and what is not cheesy. I play in tournaments every year with the same people, and last year, in 3 of my 5 games I AB'd.
Well, you say Trojan, your being cheesy, one guy ask me to tell him how to do it before the game and I said no, cuz like am I asking what ur money plays are, no, so dont ask me cheeser. He ran Miami, and threw deep 80% percent of the time then he would pause the game, put a WR at QB and roll out every play. Oh ya, he aubliled downsub from hail mary to his 5 WR set.
I dont mind pulling the AB out and using it on someone like that. Also, what do u think about Bombers 4-3 enhanced blitz's? Someone told me that was cheating also. WTF? He said I was taking advantage of the glitches in the AI's blocking scheme and that was cheating.
Someone tell me, what can or cant I do?

[seanmac]

The thing about analog blitzing is that there is a simple defense for it- you step up in the pocket. Alternately, you run out of formations that impede it, such as ace (you can run play action out of ace and consistently keep the pressure off). If you insist on playing four and five wide the entire game and not throwing to the underneath routes...well, you're pretty much asking for someone to come streaking off the corner.

[BamaGrad]

IMHO, anything that unbalances the game is cheating... all I can say is that I don't doing it because getting more than 5 sacks in a game is unrealistic. Without it, I can still get 2-5 per game, which is about right.

[PhilIvy16]

IMO it's cheese... You're using a glitch in the game to get a better jump off the LOS and get easy sacks and to quickly plug the run. There was a similar glitch in ESPN or the 2k series a couple years ago. If the player you were controlling was pumping up the crowd, you could press speed burst all you want and when the ball was snapped you would be in the backfield in no time. It was frowned on by all the simulation gamers at the time, and I see this one being no different. I played NCAA '04 and did not know about this one...I guess because I didn't play online a lot. I don't believe that Bomber's enhanced blitzes are cheese. This year the blocking is really good, and if you're going to bump and run and blitz, you better get some serious pressure or you know it's 6 for your opponent. Yeah they are confusing the AI blocking scheme but isn't a well designed blitz supposed to confuse blockers? There are weaknesses... usually all you need to do is use a 2 back set and keep them in to block, or just quickly get rid of the ball. Against a zone blitz there are going to be holes in the defense. Bomber even tells you what most of the blitzes are suspect to. With all that said... I think the best way to decide if someone is playing cheesy is how often they mix it up. You should use everything sparingly, because anytime you continue to do something over and over no one will enjoy playing games against you...

[blackpowdereer]

Sorry TrojanNole....I think it's cheese....my analogy is as follows:

MadBommbers breakdowns in the Filmroom is like a coach that sits in the filmroom pouring over gamefilms trying to find weaknesses in his opponents....he finds the weaknesses...and designs plays to exploit those weaknesses. Shifting your line....or group of guys...like LB shifts are just doing the same thing....finding ways to exploit weaknesses in your opponent.

The Analog Blitz is like giving your SS a rocket up his *** or shoot him full of steroids or giving him superhuman strength and speed. That is cheese. Exploiting an offensive weakness, AI or human, is perfectly acceptable...and used even in real life coaching.....But I don't see too many coaches shoving a rocket up a SS butt or pumping his DE's with steroids before or during the game.


/JMHO of course

[seanmac]

But here's the thing. Left to their own devices, the defensive ends simply do not get around the corner with accurate speed. In most of the NCAA games I've played online, quarterbacks are able to drop back at will and hold the ball for well over seven seconds before throwing the ball. That doesn't even begin to resemble real football. With a defensive end coming around the corner with an analog blitz, the quarterback has to step up in the pocket and has 3-4 seconds to throw, which is much closer to reality. So while I agree with you to a point, I think that the game fails to accurately model the pocket and that the analog blitz has the potential to help correct that.

[Hypocrite]

The analog blitz can be used effectively around the outside of the line as well as through the middle vs. pass and run plays. Different defenses allow for better analog blitzing through the middle than the outside.

Until football players are allowed to exactly know the snap count of the QB and are also allowed to wear mini jet packs, analog blitzing is cheating.

EL NEGRO

[TrojanNole]

Ab is cheating but when u got less than average WR's making catches in double and triple coverages, basically thats cheating too, cause its not realistic.

[TOBIAS1]

alright i just found out about the AB and i'll say one thing about it IT IS EXPLOITING A HUMAN PROGRAMMING ERROR!!!!!!!! it is not intended for the game and we capitalize on it because there is no counter part.

what i mean by counter part is that there is no way for the offense to mimic some similar movement on the line to defend against it!!!!! i mean without the AB i don' t know if i would've won the NC but i used it against the CPU!!! so in the same sense you could call me a cheater, but i think that everyone uses their "moneyplays" when in need.

but bottom line i would call the AB CHEESE, CHEAT

[TrojanNole]

Well, the AB doesnt work nearly as good as againest a human opponent, I had a guy do it to me last night, I picked it up and used my back to TE to stop him cold.
I dont care if its a cheat or not, just tell how to stop the deep passes in double and triple coverages?

[getting awn]

Well, the AB doesnt work nearly as good as againest a human opponent, I had a guy do it to me last night, I picked it up and used my back to TE to stop him cold.
I dont care if its a cheat or not, just tell how to stop the deep passes in double and triple coverages?


The cpu does not respond well in stopping the option. So I am going to use it to slow it down. O by the way... I found a way to make it just as effective as in 04.... :p

BUT I AM NOT TELLING.....LOLLLLLL!!!!! :eek:

[TOBIAS1]

well trojannole i honestly can say that there are no defenses that i have seen that stop the deep lob or pass in the 4-3, 3-4, nickel, cover 3 or 4, but the only effective d i have seen against it is the dime cover 2 man, however if they are using a scrambling QB then you have to spy the QB with an DE or the LB. its just gay when the ball is ducked up there and you know you've got a 20% chance of defending it!!!!!

I have been playing these games for 4 years now, and in every case the problematic situations we encounter are all due to bad code, human error programming. plain and simple.

the people who write code for the game are beefing up one side of the spectrum, while unknowingly decreasing another. its tough for those out there who are "traditional" football gamers, compared to those who adapt to the short cummings of the bad AI.

but again, i am right with you on finding out how to stop the deep ball, cuz the **** is getting ridiculous!!!!!!!! :mad:

[TrojanNole]

Why aint u going to tell us?!! Thats not fair, I need to know cause I took my beating well from you and need some help on offense and defense.

[kbell97]

Trojan, AWN probably just AB's the B gap, I have had someone do this online against me, also you can ab blitz the A gap. It seems like the HB is waiting to pick up a blitz from the outside first, than from inside. You can pretty much blow right by an OL AB the B gap.

[TrojanNole]

The VG members need to get together and run some noranked scrimmages and try to find a valialbe defense for the deep ball before this game becomes shelved for me and a few others.

I have a headset and am willing to let some just deep ball me to death so we can talk schemes together and post our thoughts on defending this poor programming error.

I also think, our research can help Bomber in his efforts on the deep ball error.

Anyone interested, please contact me to schedule a time. TrojanNOLE

[getting awn]

The VG members need to get together and run some noranked scrimmages and try to find a valialbe defense for the deep ball before this game becomes shelved for me and a few others.

I have a headset and am willing to let some just deep ball me to death so we can talk schemes together and post our thoughts on defending this poor programming error.

I also think, our research can help Bomber in his efforts on the deep ball error.

Anyone interested, please contact me to schedule a time. TrojanNOLE

I typed this on a previous thread, but it is obvious that no one read it. So I will type it again. This is how u stop the deep ball....

a) Know ur defender's speed.... U will not b able to stop a 95 spd wr with a 92 spd cb.... Ohio state gave me a lot of trouble when I plyed them. They have a cb w/98 spd. U need to match the speed of a deep threat with the speed of ur defenders.

b) DON'T CALL BUMP AND RUN..... DON'T CALL BUMP AND RUN!!!! This is the easiest way to get open. Remember... most of the defenders r smaller than the wrs. So u don't want them wrestling for any real length of. I was plying with this guy that got wide open bcause of that.

c) 4-2-5 double outs... This is a beautiful defense to stop the deep ball. Nuff said....

d) Hit that Muther f*cker!!!! Don't go for the int go for the big hit!!!! :D

[TrojanNole]

AWN is waiting for the Ab from the outside, his RB wil PICK U UP, and block you. AWN does blitz from the A and B gaps, espeically if ur in any Ace formation or SG with a back in. He will also use motion to back ur blitzer giving him more time in the pocket to go deep.
I order to get any presure on him, u will need one blitz from the out, and one from the gap. Others words the Rb can ony block one at a time and this one free blitzer puts him on the run.
I am currently going though zone/man blitzes with two rushers and moving them manually to get pressure on the QB.

[TrojanNole]

AWN, will the 4-2-5 Double Outs stop the deep ball similar to what u use?

I know alot of players who throw deep but not to the outside WR, but the Slot reciever and I had a guy who motions the slot to a streak and runs him past the guard then snaps the ball.

I always got beat even in double and one time I couldnt see him and he still caught the ball in coverage.

[getting awn]

AWN, will the 4-2-5 Double Outs stop the deep ball similar to what u use?

I know alot of players who throw deep but not to the outside WR, but the Slot reciever and I had a guy who motions the slot to a streak and runs him past the guard then snaps the ball.

I always got beat even in double and one time I couldnt see him and he still caught the ball in coverage.
U have to know the tendencies of ur opponents. The 4-2-5 also has a dbl for the interior receivers as well... U just have to know which one to call. Most people bomb from the outside. So the 4-2-5 DBL outs work really well...

[Oech9]

I vote not cheese. I mean if they go to a spread offense why not come off the coner. Make the offenese throw a short route every now and then. There have been games when the offense picked me apart every blitz I did. I think there is a counter to everything out there. So if someone AB's do something to counter this quick slant to where the defensive player was. Mix some PA in there or run right by him. Just my thoughts

[Farmer]

I will try these out when I get a chance later on tonight or sometime this week.



-Farmer

[kbell97]

The 4-2-5 double outs does work pretty well on stopping the outside receivers only if your opponet doesn't notice that by default the linebackers are covering the slots, which creates a huge mismatch, a linebacker against a reciever. The only pass rush you will get from this play against a spread offense such as SHOTGUN SPREAD would be from the defensive line being that 4 players are covering the outside and 2 the inside, and 1 covering the RB. If you manually blitz any of the DB's or LB's and your opponet notices this you will also get burnt very badly. I had a guy use this play online against me from the first play, when I lined up in SHOTGUN NORMAL/TRIPS/SPREAD. He must of have been used to playing online because this was his primary play mixed in with some Dime cover 2 man, he was really afraid to get burnt deep. I took advantage of this from the first play, after seeing him from the double outs for the first two plays. I ran a lot of HB angles and would throw to the slot with that mismatch, also mixed in with some running plays. He should have mixed in some some double slot with the double outs, you could easily notice though right from the snap. All in all it is a decent play to stop the deep ball.

[Farmer]

The 4-2-5 double outs does work pretty well on stopping the outside receivers only if your opponet doesn't notice that by default the linebackers are covering the slots, which creates a huge mismatch, a linebacker against a reciever.


Hmmmmmmm.............. Interesting. I think I will set this play up as one of my audibles and audible down to it from the Dime, that way I'll have a CB matched up against a WR.




-Farmer

[kbell97]

good thinking Farmer, you will get easliy burnt running the play default.