Obama's Paternal Granny

[resnor]

So, Obama's paternal grandmother came to the States, all the way from Kenya, for the Inauguration, a trip of about 9,000 miles. Once in the States, Obama wouldn't meet with her, and she was denied entrance at the Inaugural events. Isn't that strange? Wouldn't Obama WANT to see his granny from Kenya?

Well, in a stranger twist, Granny couldn't keep her mouth shut. She told reporters, just before she left, that Obama was born in Kenya, and that she was at his birth. Hmmmmm...

World Net Daily sent a guy to Hawaii to check hospital records...they couldn't find one hospital in Hawaii that had any record of Obama being born there...

Obama has yet to let anyone see his birth certificate. Why?

What is the point of all this? I don't know...I mean, even IF it could be proved that Obama wasn't a citizen, you'd still have Biden taking over as President. However, I have a real problem with this whole situation. If the Constitution requires that a President be a natural born citizen, then why don't we REQUIRE that our candidates present proof of their birthplace? Obama's birth certificate shouldn't be hidden away somewhere. If Obama isn't a natural born citizen, then a major requirement of our Constitution has been violated.

[Nevada_Ballin]

So, Obama's paternal grandmother came to the States, all the way from Kenya, for the Inauguration, a trip of about 9,000 miles. Once in the States, Obama wouldn't meet with her, and she was denied entrance at the Inaugural events. Isn't that strange? Wouldn't Obama WANT to see his granny from Kenya?

Well, in a stranger twist, Granny couldn't keep her mouth shut. She told reporters, just before she left, that Obama was born in Kenya, and that she was at his birth. Hmmmmm...

World Net Daily sent a guy to Hawaii to check hospital records...they couldn't find one hospital in Hawaii that had any record of Obama being born there...

Obama has yet to let anyone see his birth certificate. Why?

What is the point of all this? I don't know...I mean, even IF it could be proved that Obama wasn't a citizen, you'd still have Biden taking over as President. However, I have a real problem with this whole situation. If the Constitution requires that a President be a natural born citizen, then why don't we REQUIRE that our candidates present proof of their birthplace? Obama's birth certificate shouldn't be hidden away somewhere. If Obama isn't a natural born citizen, then a major requirement of our Constitution has been violated.

Wouldn't he still be an american citizen if his mom was american but gave birth in another country? I mean, if you and your wife went on vacation in Mexico while she was preggo and went into labor early then had the baby there, would that mean your baby is mexican and not american?

[R-ILLA]

Wouldn't he still be an american citizen if his mom was american but gave birth in another country? I mean, if you and your wife went on vacation in Mexico while she was preggo and went into labor early then had the baby there, would that mean your baby is mexican and not american?

The baby has to be born in America to be a President.

In other news: Obama's father may actuall be an America Bred Negro. So all this may be moot anyway.

[Nevada_Ballin]

The baby has to be born in America to be a President.

In other news: Obama's father may actuall be an America Bred Negro. So all this may be moot anyway.


i don't believe that is true... note that John McCain was born in the Panama Canal Zone. Arizonian Barry Goldwater was born in the Arizona territory before it was a state. And Mitt Romney's father, George, ran for president in 1968, though he was born in Mexico. Like McCain, both were born to U.S. citizens and, therefore, considered to be American citizens.

"And the children of citizens of the United States that may be born beyond the sea, or out of the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born citizens: Provided, That the right of citizenship shall not descend to persons whose fathers have never been resident in the United States". (Act of March 26th, 1790, 1 Stat. 103).

Citizenship would be transmitted at birth to a child born abroad to a U.S. citizen father provided only that the father had ever previously “been resident” in the United States. Even more noteworthy is that all such children were to be considered "natural born" citizens at birth abroad.

[resnor]

The problem is that there is much doubt as to whether or not his mother was a citizen. It should concern everyone that there was such little vetting of Obama that we still don't have the answers to these questions, even two months after his election.

[resnor]

McCain was born on a Naval reserve in Panama, or something like that. Kind of like an embassy. He wasn't born in Panama. To be POTUS, you MUST BE a natural born citizen.

[Nevada_Ballin]

McCain was born on a Naval reserve in Panama, or something like that. Kind of like an embassy. He wasn't born in Panama. To be POTUS, you MUST BE a natural born citizen.

per your Constitution:

"And the children of citizens of the United States that may be born beyond the sea, or out of the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born citizens"


.

[Nevada_Ballin]

actually, none of this means anything:

Obama's birth certificate (http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn227/Polarik/BO_Birth_Certificate.jpg)

Also note that Hawaii became a state in 1959, Obama was born in 1961.

Too much urban legend email Res? :)


http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/citizen.asp


.

[resnor]

1. The quote about being a citizen only applies IF Obama's parents were both citizens. There is alot of controversy over whether or not Obama's mother was a citizen at the time...his father was NOT a citizen.

2. Is that the same certificate that has been floating around for quite some time? The one that was issued in 2001? There have been examples of people in, New Mexico, I believe, issuing false copies of birth certificates. Why won't Obama simply release the ORIGINAL. By the way, ignore the fact that they haven't been able to find a hospital in Hawaii with a record of his birth. It certainly seems suspicious that Obama won't release the one document that would put all this to rest: the original certificate.

3. I've never received that email. I was just talking about something I heard on the radio the other day.

I'm not saying he is or isn't a natural born citizen. I'm just saying that there is plenty of evidence that he isn't, and it should be properly investigated. Would you not agree?

[A Disciple]

...sigh...

do you seriously believe that someone could SNEAK into the POTUS?? i mean really? or are you just bored and looking to stir up some stuff?

cause i find it hard to believe that you truly believe that this is a possibility.

[Nevada_Ballin]

1. The quote about being a citizen only applies IF Obama's parents were both citizens. There is alot of controversy over whether or not Obama's mother was a citizen at the time...his father was NOT a citizen.

2. Is that the same certificate that has been floating around for quite some time? The one that was issued in 2001? There have been examples of people in, New Mexico, I believe, issuing false copies of birth certificates. Why won't Obama simply release the ORIGINAL. By the way, ignore the fact that they haven't been able to find a hospital in Hawaii with a record of his birth. It certainly seems suspicious that Obama won't release the one document that would put all this to rest: the original certificate.

3. I've never received that email. I was just talking about something I heard on the radio the other day.

I'm not saying he is or isn't a natural born citizen. I'm just saying that there is plenty of evidence that he isn't, and it should be properly investigated. Would you not agree?

Come on Res... seriously... now you're questioning whether his mom was a citizen "at the time"?

The Obama cert i posted comes from an extremely reliable, non-partisan website called snopes, the link is in my post. They make their living off verifying truth ...especially from the internet.

I don't have my "original" birth cert either, i have a copy with the state seal on it. Does that mean I'm not a natural born citizen? No, it doesn't. Why? Because there's a record of my birth in the state I live from the hospital I was born at. That's how I got my copy of it.

Unless you or the guy on the radio can prove that Obama wasn't born in Hawaii then there's nothing there. Do you have such evidence or just simply radio talk?

Finally - "plenty of evidence" he isn't? Show me.

[JoeJGibbs]

lol... silly.

You are a Natural Born American citizen as long as 1 of your parents is a U.S. Citizen. So I'm pretty sure a caucasian lady from the midwest qualifies.


You can be born on Mars and your father is Fidel Castro, as long as your mom is Julia Roberts its all good.
:p

[JoeJGibbs]

Who is a natural-born citizen? Who, in other words, is a citizen at birth, such that that person can be a President someday?

The 14th Amendment defines citizenship this way: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside." But even this does not get specific enough. As usual, the Constitution provides the framework for the law, but it is the law that fills in the gaps.

Currently, Title 8 of the U.S. Code fills in those gaps. Section 1401 defines the following as people who are "citizens of the United States at birth:"

Anyone born inside the United States *
Any Indian or Eskimo born in the United States, provided being a citizen of the U.S. does not impair the person's status as a citizen of the tribe
Any one born outside the United States, both of whose parents are citizens of the U.S., as long as one parent has lived in the U.S.
Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year and the other parent is a U.S. national
Any one born in a U.S. possession, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year
Any one found in the U.S. under the age of five, whose parentage cannot be determined, as long as proof of non-citizenship is not provided by age 21
Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is an alien and as long as the other parent is a citizen of the U.S. who lived in the U.S. for at least five years (with military and diplomatic service included in this time)
A final, historical condition: a person born before 5/24/1934 of an alien father and a U.S. citizen mother who has lived in the U.S.


...................

[resnor]

Joe, the laws on the books, AT THE TIME OF OBAMA'S BIRTH, were different than they are today.

For Obama to be a natural born citizen...

1. He had to be born in the U.S. The claim is, he was born in Hawaii, yet no one has seen an original BC, and so far, no one has been able to find a hospital in Hawaii with a record of his birth. If he was born in Hawaii, it should be easy to find the hospital with a record of his birth.

2. His mother would have had to have been in the country for 5 years, for HER to have been a citizen, in order to have Obama be a natural born if he was born overseas. There is evidence that suggests that she was NOT in America for the 5 year period that was required at the time. Therefore, if Obama was indeed born in Kenya, as many of his family claim, then he would not be a natural born citizen.

3. If he was adopted by the Indonesian guy, then that would create a whole different set of issues.

The problem is, too many people would prefer to just gloss right over these things, and never get to the truth. I'm not saying he is or he isn't a natural born citizen...I'm just saying, it should be properly investigated...and it hasn't been.

[Codeman]

So, Obama's paternal grandmother came to the States, all the way from Kenya, for the Inauguration, a trip of about 9,000 miles. Once in the States, Obama wouldn't meet with her, and she was denied entrance at the Inaugural events. Isn't that strange? Wouldn't Obama WANT to see his granny from Kenya?

Well, in a stranger twist, Granny couldn't keep her mouth shut. She told reporters, just before she left, that Obama was born in Kenya, and that she was at his birth. Hmmmmm...

World Net Daily sent a guy to Hawaii to check hospital records...they couldn't find one hospital in Hawaii that had any record of Obama being born there...

Obama has yet to let anyone see his birth certificate. Why?

What is the point of all this? I don't know...I mean, even IF it could be proved that Obama wasn't a citizen, you'd still have Biden taking over as President. However, I have a real problem with this whole situation. If the Constitution requires that a President be a natural born citizen, then why don't we REQUIRE that our candidates present proof of their birthplace? Obama's birth certificate shouldn't be hidden away somewhere. If Obama isn't a natural born citizen, then a major requirement of our Constitution has been violated.he was also born before Hawaii became a state....im sure the powers to be helped hide any records.....

[resnor]

he was also born before Hawaii became a state....im sure the powers to be helped hide any records.....

That one is not true. Why does everyone act like I'm saying that he isn't a natural born? I'm just saying that it SHOULD BE VERIFIED. If you disagree, then maybe we should just get rid of the requirements for POTUS.

[JoeJGibbs]

Joe, the laws on the books, AT THE TIME OF OBAMA'S BIRTH, were different than they are today.

For Obama to be a natural born citizen...

1. He had to be born in the U.S. The claim is, he was born in Hawaii, yet no one has seen an original BC, and so far, no one has been able to find a hospital in Hawaii with a record of his birth. If he was born in Hawaii, it should be easy to find the hospital with a record of his birth.

2. His mother would have had to have been in the country for 5 years, for HER to have been a citizen, in order to have Obama be a natural born if he was born overseas. There is evidence that suggests that she was NOT in America for the 5 year period that was required at the time. Therefore, if Obama was indeed born in Kenya, as many of his family claim, then he would not be a natural born citizen.

3. If he was adopted by the Indonesian guy, then that would create a whole different set of issues.

The problem is, too many people would prefer to just gloss right over these things, and never get to the truth. I'm not saying he is or he isn't a natural born citizen...I'm just saying, it should be properly investigated...and it hasn't been.

I guess what I don't follow is if the rules change, why would he be held to the prior qualifications?

[resnor]

Ummm...because you're bound by the laws at the time of your birth. I he WASN'T a natural born at the time of his birth, then the laws now wouldn't matter.

[Nevada_Ballin]

That one is not true. Why does everyone act like I'm saying that he isn't a natural born? I'm just saying that it SHOULD BE VERIFIED. If you disagree, then maybe we should just get rid of the requirements for POTUS.

1. This was already taken to court in New Jersey during his campaign (read the snopes article).

2. Do you not think the GOP verified this when they knew they were going to lose?

3. What about Mitt Romney's dad being born in Mexico but being able to legally run for President?

The "verification" was done way before the election.

[Nevada_Ballin]

he was also born before Hawaii became a state....im sure the powers to be helped hide any records.....

more urban legend crap... hawaii became a state in 1959, Obama was born in 1961.

[Codeman]

more urban legend crap... hawaii became a state in 1959, Obama was born in 1961.NB that is still in debate, has anyone seen the BC....

[Nevada_Ballin]

NB that is still in debate, has anyone seen the BC....

yea, it's in this thread.......


.

[Codeman]

yea, it's in this thread.......


.my bad, i didnt see where you posted it......

[Nevada_Ballin]

my bad, i didnt see where you posted it......

no prob man.... i'm sure there are peeps who think it isn't real or say it doesn't count because it's a copy and not the original but unless they can prove it otherwise, what else can be done?

[JoeJGibbs]

Ok, fine.. Barack Obama snuck into the job of Commander in Chief.

I guess Leroy Jenkins, the official presidential nominee qualification checker guy fell asleep on his 3rd shift and shuffled Obama's papers away before verifying them.


:p

[Nevada_Ballin]

Ok, fine.. Barack Obama snuck into the job of Commander in Chief.

I guess Leroy Jenkins, the official presidential nominee qualification checker guy fell asleep on his 3rd shift and shuffled Obama's papers away before verifying them.


:p

shhh, Obama is really the Lich King....

[resnor]

So, basically, you guys are saying that you would prefer that no investigation be done into Presidential candidates to insure that they meet the requirements set forth by the Constitution?

Again, I'm not saying that he is or isn't a naturalized citizen...what I'm saying is, there is evidence that Obama may not have been born in Hawaii, and there is evidence that his mother was not a citizen, so, if he had been born out of the country, he wouldn't qualify as a natural born citizen. All I'm saying is that this stuff should be properly investigated...to my knowledge, it hasn't been.

[Swift456]

Joe I know u didnt like that Ummmmmmm from Res lol...............


Ummmmmmm, Like Oh my god, As IFffffffff

[Nevada_Ballin]

So, basically, you guys are saying that you would prefer that no investigation be done into Presidential candidates to insure that they meet the requirements set forth by the Constitution?

Again, I'm not saying that he is or isn't a naturalized citizen...what I'm saying is, there is evidence that Obama may not have been born in Hawaii, and there is evidence that his mother was not a citizen, so, if he had been born out of the country, he wouldn't qualify as a natural born citizen. All I'm saying is that this stuff should be properly investigated...to my knowledge, it hasn't been.

For the second time, produce this "evidence"... show us.

[Milwaukee]

Resnor there are 2 possible outcomes to this:

1. Obama is not a citizen, and no one in any republican or democrat campaign or in the media (or anywhere) managed to check this and allowed it to happen. That could either be a "mistake" or "oversight", or it is intentional. I'll lean towards intentional ;)

2. He is a citizen, and you're a kook.

Being a kook isn't that bad....I still think 9-11 was done by our own gov't (or allowed to happen by them-"oversight" and "mistakes" FTW). You trying to join me in Kooksville?

[resnor]

Sorry, Milwaukee...

Unlike you and your 9/11 conspiracy theory, I don't believe there to be some conspiracy about Obama. All I'm saying, is that these things should be investigated...and they haven't been. That concerns me.

Nevada...if I had the time and money to do this investigating on my own, sure, I would do it. However, like I said, at least one source has sent a reporter to Hawaii, to check out the hospitals, and try to find where he was born. He was unsuccessful.

Obama's mother has pretty much escaped scrutiny, as to whether or not she was actually a citizen when he was born. That is also a little disconcerting.

[McMadden]

Someone with experience.

Both of my sons are US citizens. They were both born on Tachikawa section of Yokota AB Japan. I received their official birth certificates from the US State Dept in Washington D.C.

When ever I enrolled my kids into a school for the first time I get a kick out of telling the admin that they were born in Tachikawa. "Really, you got a birth certificate Mr. McMadden?" "Yup, here it is." "Oh." LOL!

I also was stationed in Hawaii during the early Eighties, went back there on business 2003. Man the amount of construction that went on back then and now is amazing. Waikiki looks basically the same but now there is the H3 highway, which was a glimmer in everyones eyes back then. So what if the hospital from the sixties no longer exist?

Also as with my kids, there is no way that Obama left Kenya with-out a passport. Where is it?

I lost my original birth certificate when I was seventeen, my Pennsylvania BC is dated 1995, so I am one of those Obama types that can't provide an original too. :rolleyes:

And the bottom line is this, the great big RNC machine couldn't come up with anything else close to this to disqualify Obama? I mean really?

[Sgt.Slaughter]

I still don't understand where Resnor is now questioning the citizenship of Obama's mother...are you serious? Do you think that she cast down America to become a citizen of Kenya? Or was she traveling to Indonesia on a fellowship and gave up everything American to become Indonesian? I mean come on...all this would have hit the fan around January 2008.

And just for a second let's be real here...let's say Resnor is right and Obama wasn't a citizen. You know what this means then...Schwarzenegger 2012!!!

[resnor]

And it becomes apparent that the guy who has the name Obama as a chant in his sig is completely ignorant about the question about Obama's mother. Yes, there are those who say that she may have given up her citizenship when she went to Kenya. There are also those who say that she wasn't in the U.S. long enough to have gotten citizenship BEFORE leaving to go to Kenya.

Whatever. I already laid out the basic idea of why people think that his mother might not have been been a citizen when Obama was born.

For the record, Slaughter, how many news agencies do YOU know that actually investigated it? I don't know of any. The point is, pretty much everybody takes the attitude that you are, and that is, that if there were any truth to it, it would have come out already. But, if everyone takes that POV, then no one bothers to investigate. For the last time, I'M NOT SAYING THAT HE ISN'T A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN. I AM SAYING THAT WE, THE AMERICAN PEOPLE, DESERVE A BETTER SYSTEM WHERE THESE THINGS ARE EXAMINED IN A TRANSPARENT MANNER. Quit trying to paint me as some sort of conspiracy kook. I think that when it comes to the office of President, we should have NO questions about whether someone meets the Constitutionally laid out requirements for President.

[McMadden]

And it becomes apparent that the guy who has the name Obama as a chant in his sig is completely ignorant about the question about Obama's mother. Yes, there are those who say that she may have given up her citizenship when she went to Kenya. There are also those who say that she wasn't in the U.S. long enough to have gotten citizenship BEFORE leaving to go to Kenya.

Whatever. I already laid out the basic idea of why people think that his mother might not have been been a citizen when Obama was born.

For the record, Slaughter, how many news agencies do YOU know that actually investigated it? I don't know of any. The point is, pretty much everybody takes the attitude that you are, and that is, that if there were any truth to it, it would have come out already. But, if everyone takes that POV, then no one bothers to investigate. For the last time, I'M NOT SAYING THAT HE ISN'T A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN. I AM SAYING THAT WE, THE AMERICAN PEOPLE, DESERVE A BETTER SYSTEM WHERE THESE THINGS ARE EXAMINED IN A TRANSPARENT MANNER. Quit trying to paint me as some sort of conspiracy kook. I think that when it comes to the office of President, we should have NO questions about whether someone meets the Constitutionally laid out requirements for President.
LOL, when Sarah Palin was announced as McCain's running mate, a team of lawyers went to Alaska to try to put on hold the investigations of the governor's office for improprieties.

Relying on news agencies to vet our political candidates? I for one don't trust the news/media for thats not their job.

Question, when/where was Obamas first passport issued? That would end all discussions on his place of birth. If it was issued in Kenya, US Embassy.

You mean to tell me McCain's teams of lawyers were not up to the task on whether or not Obama was born on US soil?

Dude you are grasping at straws.

Don't you find it ironic that the RNC linked Obama to a domestic terrorist, a slum lord, a racist preacher, but not a US citizen? Really? :rolleyes:

Sure sounds kooky to me. Especially when you blame the news media for not investigating it. Did ya think, just maybe there was no story or truth to the rumors?

[Sgt.Slaughter]

LOL, when Sarah Palin was announced as McCain's running mate, a team of lawyers went to Alaska to try to put on hold the investigations of the governor's office for improprieties.

Relying on news agencies to vet our political candidates? I for one don't trust the news/media for thats not their job.

Question, when/where was Obamas first passport issued? That would end all discussions on his place of birth. If it was issued in Kenya, US Embassy.

You mean to tell me McCain's teams of lawyers were not up to the task on whether or not Obama was born on US soil?

Dude you are grasping at straws.

Don't you find it ironic that the RNC linked Obama to a domestic terrorist, a slum lord, a racist preacher, but not a US citizen? Really? :rolleyes:

Sure sounds kooky to me. Especially when you blame the news media for not investigating it. Did ya think, just maybe there was no story or truth to the rumors?


PREACH!!! I think im bout to catch the holy ghost in here....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhSdOtyERuI&feature=PlayList&p=E57EA845A5737DAC&index=0&playnext=1

[resnor]

LOL, when Sarah Palin was announced as McCain's running mate, a team of lawyers went to Alaska to try to put on hold the investigations of the governor's office for improprieties.

Relying on news agencies to vet our political candidates? I for one don't trust the news/media for thats not their job.

Question, when/where was Obamas first passport issued? That would end all discussions on his place of birth. If it was issued in Kenya, US Embassy.

You mean to tell me McCain's teams of lawyers were not up to the task on whether or not Obama was born on US soil?

Dude you are grasping at straws.

Don't you find it ironic that the RNC linked Obama to a domestic terrorist, a slum lord, a racist preacher, but not a US citizen? Really? :rolleyes:

Sure sounds kooky to me. Especially when you blame the news media for not investigating it. Did ya think, just maybe there was no story or truth to the rumors?

Riiiiight. So, because there was no investigation, that means there was no story? Get real, dude. You're just like the Obama administration..."Nothing to see here, folks, move along."

Fact is, Obama IS friends with a domestic terrorist. He IS friends with a slum lord. He IS friends with a racist preacher. However, the mainstream media didn't investigate THOSE things either...guess that means that there was nothing to them. Please.

I'm not grasping at straws. As I've said repeatedly, but you're apparently too entrenched in Obama man-love to comprehend, I'M NOT SAYING THAT HE ISN'T A NATURALIZED CITIZEN!! I'm just saying, that people have questions, and there aren't easy to find answers to those questions. I'm saying that the office of President should be transparent, especially when it comes to knowing whether or not they qualify for it.

If news agencies aren't going to vet our candidates, who's going to do it?

[resnor]

LOL


I'm a kook because I think that we should be able to get answers to questions concerning whether or not a presidential candidate meets the Constitutional requirements? Wow. Also, where have I said that Obama DOESN'T QUALIFY? That's right, I haven't. I haven't latched onto any theories, hence I haven't given any proof. I'm merely disussing something that could be an issue.

By the way, what happened to the rules in this forum?

[Nevada_Ballin]

LOL


I'm a kook because I think that we should be able to get answers to questions concerning whether or not a presidential candidate meets the Constitutional requirements? Wow. Also, where have I said that Obama DOESN'T QUALIFY? That's right, I haven't. I haven't latched onto any theories, hence I haven't given any proof. I'm merely disussing something that could be an issue.

By the way, what happened to the rules in this forum?

What hurtful thing was said to you?

[resnor]

Oh, nothing...I was called a conspiracy kook in this thread...no big deal. I just think it's funny that we have these new rules for discussion in here, yet no one seems to follow them.

[maddenbowl62]

LOL


I'm a kook because I think that we should be able to get answers to questions concerning whether or not a presidential candidate meets the Constitutional requirements? Wow. Also, where have I said that Obama DOESN'T QUALIFY? That's right, I haven't. I haven't latched onto any theories, hence I haven't given any proof. I'm merely disussing something that could be an issue.

By the way, what happened to the rules in this forum?

If you don't think Obama is unqualified, then why start the thread. I should start a thread that says Obama could be a shape shifting alien without saying I believe it. :rolleyes:

You are conspiracy kook because you believe what your friend told you about how everyone in the military knew Saddam hid his WMD's in Syria. Of course, it makes little sense since the Bush Administration wouldn't cover that up because it would have helped them tremendously.

[resnor]

Is it just me, or is anyone else compelled to review the testimony of long-time arms inspector David Kay, former head of the Iraq Survey Group, who triggered a firestorm when he indicated in a variety of venues, both official and media venues, that "we were all wrong", no large stockpiles of WMDs were found in Iraq and were unlikely to be found in Iraq. The liberal press is up to their usual tricks of twisting the truth – in this case taking Kay's partial statements and spinning them into the "big lie" that there was no justification for war in Iraq. In fact, David Kay said quite the opposite before the Senate Armed Services Committee on January 28, 2004: "Senator Warner, I think the world is far safer with the disappearance and the removal of Saddam Hussein. I have said I actually think this may be one of those cases where it (the Iraqi regime) was even more dangerous than we thought."

Kay further espoused before the Senate:" Well, it's not that they (the Iraqis) don't have a weapons program – didn't have a weapons program. It is that they had a weapons program but it was a program activity designed to allow future production at some time. And that the missile program was actually moving ahead." Moreover, Kay described the vital Iraqi weapons-infrastructure that was in effect: "So they kept the scientists and they kept the technology, but they came to what I think is a fair conclusion. Why keep the stockpiles of weapons that are vulnerable to inspectors when you've lost your delivery capability? Wait till you have your delivery capability, and then it's a relatively short order." In other words, the Iraqis were poised to promptly move forward in the development of WMDs once they got rid of the inspectors and had their delivery systems in play.

Let's review a portion of David Kay's Interim Progress Report on the activities of the Iraq Survey Group before Senate committees on October 2, 2003, as Kay delineated aspects of Iraq's weapons program:

* A clandestine network of laboratories and safehouses within the Iraqi Intelligence Service that contained equipment subject to UN monitoring and suitable for continuing CBW research.
* A prison laboratory complex, possibly used in human testing of BW agents that Iraqi officials, working to prepare for UN inspections, were explicitly ordered not to declare to the UN.
* Reference strains of biological organisms concealed in a scientist's home, one of which can be used to produce biological weapons.
* New research on BW-applicable agents, Brucella and Congo Crimean Hemorrhagic Fever (CCHF), and continuing work on ricin and aflatoxin were not declared to the UN.
* Plans and advanced design work for new long-range missiles with ranges up to at least 1000 km - well beyond the 150 km range limit imposed by the UN. Missiles of a 1000 km range would have allowed Iraq to threaten targets throughout the Middle East, including Ankara, Cairo, and Abu Dhabi.
* Clandestine attempts between late-1999 and 2002 to obtain from North Korea technology related to 1,300 km range ballistic missiles --probably the No Dong -- 300 km range anti-ship cruise missiles, and other prohibited military equipment.

Mind you, this is just a sampling from David Kay's interim report, which is quite informative as to what comprises a weapons program. It's also notable that Kay and his Iraq Survey Group were stymied in their search by "Ali Baba looting" and intentional destruction of records.

There's a couple of quotes that directly relate to the WMD's, from David Kay, a weapons inspector.

It should be obvious why I started the thread. I don't think that the process is transparent enough.

[McMadden]

So, Obama's paternal grandmother came to the States, all the way from Kenya, for the Inauguration, a trip of about 9,000 miles. [So.] Once in the States, Obama wouldn't meet with her, and she was denied entrance at the Inaugural events. [Again, So.] Isn't that strange? Wouldn't Obama WANT to see his granny from Kenya? [Who really gives a rats ***.]

Well, in a stranger twist, Granny couldn't keep her mouth shut. She told reporters, just before she left, that Obama was born in Kenya, [She's pissed, and you believed her.] and that she was at his birth. Hmmmmm... [Hhmmm indeed, that you would lend credence to her words. Hhhhmmmmm.]

World Net Daily sent a guy to Hawaii to check hospital records...they couldn't find one hospital in Hawaii that had any record of Obama being born there... [I'm sure Obama came and and asked the doctor, Hey what Hospital am I in? I may run for president some day and need to know." Also his mom is no longer with him him and died prior to him going into politics. Again, So.]

Obama has yet to let anyone see his birth certificate. [This is an out right lie, he has produced a BC.]

What is the point of all this? I don't know... [Yeah, WTF? ] I mean, even IF it could be proved that Obama wasn't a citizen, you'd still have Biden taking over as President. However, I have a real problem with this whole situation. If the Constitution requires that a President be a natural born citizen, then why don't we REQUIRE that our candidates present proof of their birthplace? [Um, he did.] Obama's birth certificate shouldn't be hidden away somewhere. [It isn't hidden.] If Obama isn't a natural born citizen, then a major requirement of our Constitution has been violated. [I'll play devils advocate here. If in fact all that you say is true then isn't it the fault of the RNC for looking the other way and allowing this to happen? ]

Wrong on a legal document presented to the press and held up in numerous court challenges, even Glen Beck did a story and called people idiots.

Vetted by web sites such as Snopes, Fact Check dot com, and an Army of investigative reporters who swarmed to the Isle of Hawaii.

Nothing


But, If I listen and watch the Faux Noise Channel, and Hannity, Rielly, etc. I could see how one could become convoluted. :rolleyes: