Illegal Immigrants Vs Jobs Crunch

[Nevada_Ballin]

10-12 million illegal immigrants working in this country ---- 11 million Americans out of work. A recent report says that the lack of work has slowed down illegal immigration but it didn't say what percent, if any, were leaving.

Is it safe to say that "jobs Americans won't do" are now jobs that they would?



.

[theanalogkid]

10-12 million illegal immigrants working in this country ---- 11 million Americans out of work. A recent report says that the lack of work has slowed down illegal immigration but it didn't say what percent, if any, were leaving.

Is it safe to say that "jobs Americans won't do" are now jobs that they would?



.

I'd probably venture to say no.

Funny how there is no talk about illegal immigration anymore since it's not an election year. Nor is there talk about drilling for oil in the US because oil prices are low.

[Play Action]

10-12 million illegal immigrants working in this country ---- 11 million Americans out of work. A recent report says that the lack of work has slowed down illegal immigration but it didn't say what percent, if any, were leaving.

Is it safe to say that "jobs Americans won't do" are now jobs that they would?



.

INMO, the more desperate the economy and US citizens get, the more illegal immigrants existence, be magnified.

Hopefully they are sent packing and the businesses for hiring them, be penalized.

Illegal immigrants are literally milking our economy by sending money back home to where ever the %^$&^% they are from!!! Plus we send American jobs over the pond. Which equates to our demise.

Its just stupid times right now.
(((Betcha Lou Dobbs feels the same way)))

[XxsourdieselxX]

its a dam shame, they work for peanuts, tthen shack up 8 deep in a one room apt, and its just retarted, down south its real bad not so much up here.
also how bout we cut the tax breaks for these immagrants legal or not. ythey buy all the 711's then get a tax break for 10 years, then put it in there brothers name, and never pay taxes, but we get milked like a 70 year old cow. or pockets getting thinner, and come on obama, i watch him last night good speech. hit a lot of stuff we need, we need huge tax on imports, so we can start making stuff here, also wal mart need destroyed, WAL MART IS ONE OF THE REASONS EVERYTHINGS FUXED. NO COMP AND driving out small buissnesses

[Play Action]

its a dam shame, they work for peanuts, tthen shack up 8 deep in a one room apt, and its just retarted, down south its real bad not so much up here.
also how bout we cut the tax breaks for these immagrants legal or not. ythey buy all the 711's then get a tax break for 10 years, then put it in there brothers name, and never pay taxes, but we get milked like a 70 year old cow. or pockets getting thinner, and come on obama, i watch him last night good speech. hit a lot of stuff we need, we need huge tax on imports, so we can start making stuff here, also wal mart need destroyed, WAL MART IS ONE OF THE REASONS EVERYTHINGS FUXED. NO COMP AND driving out small buissnessesExactly..


The laws should be that if you own an American business, it must be ran in the United States and your workers must be us citizens that reside in the United States. It may not be 100% fool prove, but its a start.

[A Disciple]

hmmmmmmmmmm...

interesting points.

[Nevada_Ballin]

its a dam shame, they work for peanuts, tthen shack up 8 deep in a one room apt, and its just retarted, down south its real bad not so much up here.
also how bout we cut the tax breaks for these immagrants legal or not. ythey buy all the 711's then get a tax break for 10 years, then put it in there brothers name, and never pay taxes, but we get milked like a 70 year old cow. or pockets getting thinner, and come on obama, i watch him last night good speech. hit a lot of stuff we need, we need huge tax on imports, so we can start making stuff here, also wal mart need destroyed, WAL MART IS ONE OF THE REASONS EVERYTHINGS FUXED. NO COMP AND driving out small buissnesses

if you wanna get on the whole tax thing, think about all the churches, ministries, priests, reverends, ministers, nuns, etc who do not have to pay taxes... care to take a guess at how much money it would be if they did?

Yet they want to have a strong say-so in the political arena... talk about having your cake and eating it too.... sheesh.... lol... don't pay taxes AND have political influence....


.

[Nevada_Ballin]

I'd probably venture to say no.

Funny how there is no talk about illegal immigration anymore since it's not an election year. Nor is there talk about drilling for oil in the US because oil prices are low.

Aren't you glad that i haven't forgotten about it? :)

[XxsourdieselxX]

if you wanna get on the whole tax thing, think about all the churches, ministries, priests, reverends, ministers, nuns, etc who do not have to pay taxes... care to take a guess at how much money it would be if they did?

Yet they want to have a strong say-so in the political arena... talk about having your cake and eating it too.... sheesh.... lol... don't pay taxes AND have political influence....


.

, the church got more money than the us, ifthey can touch lil boys, they surely wont pay taxes

[TheRealist]

Yeah, okay.

Prove that the Church makes over 13.8 trillion dollars every year.

You're stupid.

Funny how you also threw in the steriotype of "touching little boys" in there. Any idea about the % of priests with allegations against them? Wiki it for christsakes, then go to the original source. Not only are you stupid...

You're ignorant.

All churches operate because of the contributions of their supporters, whom are already taxed on their earnings. Therefore, if they wish to speak their political views collectively through a church (who they place faith in to communicate anothers (the Churches) core beliefs), then what is wrong with this? Don't like what they're saying? DON'T GIVE YOUR MONEY TO THEM THEN. A voice projected by money is sure to fade out if it doesn't receive any.

Along the same lines, this runs deep in political ideology. Contrary to the beliefs (or bias in your case) of others, the majority of any earnings or income that a Church makes is distributed towards charity and other community based need services. The rest is allocated to maintaining their assets (building, property, etc.). So, what is the use in taxing a Church of its donations which are undoubtedly being used to benefit the public good? The benefit this serves locally is MUCH greater than anyway this money could have been redistributed (small chance of helping the proximate community) by a federal body.

Just because you may or may not adhere to a specific Church's beliefs doesn't imply that the way they allocate their money are specifically right or wrong. Most religions in the United States use their money in the way that I have explained above.

A tax would only increase the burden (especially on small churches) and in the long run decrease the overall charitableness of the Church and thus, the public it administers its money to.

[Nevada_Ballin]

Yeah, okay.

Prove that the Church makes over 13.8 trillion dollars every year.

You're stupid.

Funny how you also threw in the steriotype of "touching little boys" in there. Any idea about the % of priests with allegations against them? Wiki it for christsakes, then go to the original source. Not only are you stupid...

You're ignorant.

All churches operate because of the contributions of their supporters, whom are already taxed on their earnings. Therefore, if they wish to speak their political views collectively through a church (who they place faith in to communicate anothers (the Churches) core beliefs), then what is wrong with this? Don't like what they're saying? DON'T GIVE YOUR MONEY TO THEM THEN. A voice projected by money is sure to fade out if it doesn't receive any.

Along the same lines, this runs deep in political ideology. Contrary to the beliefs (or bias in your case) of others, the majority of any earnings or income that a Church makes is distributed towards charity and other community based need services. The rest is allocated to maintaining their assets (building, property, etc.). So, what is the use in taxing a Church of its donations which are undoubtedly being used to benefit the public good? The benefit this serves locally is MUCH greater than anyway this money could have been redistributed (small chance of helping the proximate community) by a federal body.

Just because you may or may not adhere to a specific Church's beliefs doesn't imply that the way they allocate their money are specifically right or wrong. Most religions in the United States use their money in the way that I have explained above.

A tax would only increase the burden (especially on small churches) and in the long run decrease the overall charitableness of the Church and thus, the public it administers its money to.

Churches charge for weddings and funerals as well as rent out their fellowship halls.

When a "donation" becomes a salary for a reverend, secreatary or janitor it then becomes individual income for those people. There's no reason why they shouldn't pay income tax like everyone else.

No one said they made $13 trillion dollars.

Finally, please refrain from calling people stupid or ignorant simply because you disagree with their point of view (check my sig)

[TheSphinx 2.0]

come on obama, i watch him last night good speech. hit a lot of stuff we need, we need huge tax on imports, so we can start making stuff here,

Protectionism is the quickest way to the destruction of America. Just think about it for a minute. You put taxes on imports and so will everybody else. America is massively in debt right now. We need China to buy our debt. What happens if they say "fine, you want to tax our stuff, we just won't buy your debt". You can never save your economy by trying to hurts others'

-TS

[resnor]

Just so you know, not every church whores itself out for money...i.e., renting the building for weddings, and other functions. I know many Baptist churches that don't. My church certainly doesn't. The money that comes in to my chuch comes from people's tithes, and from whatever revenue is generated by the school we operate (which is usually next to nothing, since we barely charge people to send their kids there.)

Also, wanted to comment on the Walmart thing. ARE YOU SERIOUS? You do realize that the biggest help to poor and underpaid people is a store that KEEPS PRICES LOW! Too bad for local businesses. It's a free market, people. If you can't compete, then get out of the game. Walmart is big, and can sell stuff cheap. That's good for the consumer. They employee more people than local businesses, too. That's good for the worker.

[XxsourdieselxX]

Just so you know, not every church whores itself out for money...i.e., renting the building for weddings, and other functions. I know many Baptist churches that don't. My church certainly doesn't. The money that comes in to my chuch comes from people's tithes, and from whatever revenue is generated by the school we operate (which is usually next to nothing, since we barely charge people to send their kids there.)

Also, wanted to comment on the Walmart thing. ARE YOU SERIOUS? You do realize that the biggest help to poor and underpaid people is a store that KEEPS PRICES LOW! Too bad for local businesses. It's a free market, people. If you can't compete, then get out of the game. Walmart is big, and can sell stuff cheap. That's good for the consumer. They employee more people than local businesses, too. That's good for the worker.

its bad for people who want to start a bussniess, and cant compete, and the local econmies where they drive out bussiness, and do it for fun, there a doc about wa mart on tv, how evil they are
and not everyone who was working at the local store, that was there sice 1911 and family ran wants to go work a wally world, its not goood for anyone except walmart, they offer crap benifits, and wages with lil room for advancement, how is that good? and is one of the biggst employers in the us

about church i wasnt talkin about a specific church, but as a whole they got loot, more than the us. that what i was saying

[XxsourdieselxX]

o ya this speak volumes for ur point

they got enuff loot to pay 85 mil. 31 mil 24 mil ect ect ect

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Catholic_sex_abuse_cases

[resnor]

Diesel...

You obviously are uninformed. So, because you saw a documentary on tv, so it MUST be true.:rolleyes: Too bad if a small store can't compete with Walmart. That's business. Know WHY they can't compete? Because Walmart can sell stuff for a lower price and STILL TURN A PROFIT! That means that the consumer BENEFITS. That is GOOD for consumers. By the way, I heard all the anti-Walmart arguments when they put one into my small NH town...how it was going to put Main St. out of business, blah, blah, blah. Guess what. All the businesses are still here 10 years later.

[XxsourdieselxX]

[QUOTE=resnor;1154139]Diesel...

You obviously are uninformed. So, because you saw a documentary on tv, so it MUST be true.:rolleyes: Too bad if a small store can't compete with Walmart. That's business. Know WHY they can't compete? Because Walmart can sell stuff for a lower price and STILL TURN A PROFIT! That means that the consumer BENEFITS. That is GOOD for consumers. By the way, I heard all the anti-Walmart arguments when they put one into my small NH town...how it was going to put Main St. out of business, blah, blah, blah. Guess what. All the businesses are still here 10 years later.[/QUOTE

ok i feel how i do u feel how u do, i know howit is round here, there will be 10 people shopping in target, wal mart a 45min line,

ex walmart went to huffy, made in use for 100 years, said well sell huffies, if you give then to us for this price, huffy agrees, but had to move over seas to keep cost down, because walmart is now the biggest bike dealer in the us, fishing goods, toys, food, i me, i think its out of hand and avoid wal mart as much as i can.

[resnor]

I find it a little ironic that a stoner avoids Walmart cause he doesn't like their business practices, but has no problem supporting drug dealers and the stuff that they are associated with...

[Gtrght77]

I find it a little ironic that a stoner avoids Walmart cause he doesn't like their business practices, but has no problem supporting drug dealers and the stuff that they are associated with...

What the United States Gov?

[XxsourdieselxX]

well that just me, and i only support weed, im not for coke dope, ect, ect, violence is associated more with harder drugs, more money involved, you dont even know me nor anything about what i know, and just cause im "stoner" i stand by my statements and will never flip flop on anything, i hate how people try to act like they know u cause of what you type here, for any further comments refer to my avatar

[XxsourdieselxX]

Diesel...

You obviously are uninformed. So, because you saw a documentary on tv, so it MUST be true.:rolleyes: Too bad if a small store can't compete with Walmart. That's business. Know WHY they can't compete? Because Walmart can sell stuff for a lower price and STILL TURN A PROFIT! That means that the consumer BENEFITS. That is GOOD for consumers. By the way, I heard all the anti-Walmart arguments when they put one into my small NH town...how it was going to put Main St. out of business, blah, blah, blah. Guess what. All the businesses are still here 10 years later.

and the reason they can sell it cheaper is because of the leverage walmart hold to companies, all they have to say is give it to us 3 dollars cheaper per case well buy 100000 more..... ima not make it personal, so nevada doesnt have to remind me

[TheRealist]

o ya this speak volumes for ur point

they got enuff loot to pay 85 mil. 31 mil 24 mil ect ect ect

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Catholic_sex_abuse_cases

My point is that you were collectively making fun of a group where less than 4% of all priests had even committed the act you described.

85 mil is not 13.8 trillion. The Church is nowhere close to having the income or the net worth of the United States. Unless you can prove it...which I'm positive you can't...:D

[Gtrght77]

My point is that you were collectively making fun of a group where less than 4% of all priests had even committed the act you described.

85 mil is not 13.8 trillion. The Church is nowhere close to having the income or the net worth of the United States. Unless you can prove it...which I'm positive you can't...:D

LOL


Its not the amount of Preists that did it, its the fact that the church covered it up when they did.

[TheRealist]

LOL


Its not the amount of Preists that did it, its the fact that the church covered it up when they did.

Obviously if they are paying out multi-million dollar settlements, then they didn't quite seem to cover it up as well as hoped.

So make fun of the Church for failing to cover it up and collectively bashing 96% of priests who had no involvement in the matter?

I guess two wrongs make a right.

[XxsourdieselxX]

My point is that you were collectively making fun of a group where less than 4% of all priests had even committed the act you described.

85 mil is not 13.8 trillion. The Church is nowhere close to having the income or the net worth of the United States. Unless you can prove it...which I'm positive you can't...:D

im sure that all of the catloic churches in the world and income per year, every church has to give money to the vadican, so think about all across the world, every church, total it up probably be close

4% reported. and think about it 4 out of evry hundred, these prolly 200 churches in pittsburgh alone, so think about the children it affects, stop sticking up for child molestors, if it was your kid or someone you knew life was ruined by one of god servants

if you check megans law and saw a child molestor lived down the street, how would u feel?

[TheRealist]

im sure that all of the catloic churches in the world and income per year, every church has to give money to the vadican, so think about all across the world, every church, total it up probably be close

4% reported. and think about it 4 out of evry hundred, these prolly 200 churches in pittsburgh alone, so think about the children it affects, stop sticking up for child molestors, if it was your kid or someone you knew life was ruined by one of god servants

if you check megans law and saw a child molestor lived down the street, how would u feel?

I'm in no f***ing way sticking up for that 4%, where have I indicated that!? I'm sticking up for the 96 other f***ing people out of 100 that you're discriminating against. Choose your words wisely the next time you decide to insult a group where the majority is made of up of good, honest, law-abiding men.

Again with the income...stop assuming and prove it. I know you can't...

[XxsourdieselxX]

In 1994, the audit listed:
- 1,483 billion lire in assets [About $848 million]: -
- 732 billion lire [about $419 million] in liabilities (in the
"Consolidated Financial Statements of the Holy See" (410 billion in
cash, 479 billion in stocks and bonds, 29 billion in gold, and 470
billion in fixed assets - investments and real-estate) . 269 billion
lire are in deposits and accounts of Vatican entities, 96 billion for
employees' severance indemnities and 262 billion at the value of
pensions to present employees;
- 750 billion are in net assets [$430 million].

These figures are without the bank and the Vatican City, each of them
was mentioned earlier, and Reese estimates that it would add up to
$500 million to $1 billion. However, deducting the Vatican City's
budget and the $270 million reported as "fixed assets", the sum is
lower than $1 billion, maybe even less than quarter billion dollars.

Although Reese's information is only an estimation, it is probably the
closer you'll get, with the complex structure of the Vatican and the
Church. You can find other estimations online, including from this
site <http://www.vaticanbankclaims.com>, which tries to assert
retributions from the Vatican bank on property looted by the Nazis.
they claim the bank has manages 2bn (British Pounds) of assets, and
that The Vatican had a balance of 2.5bn lira in 1998, then worth about
1m. <http://www.vaticanbankclaims.com/worldly.htm>

In an interview published in Money Week, Cardinal Edmund C. Szoka, the
Vatican's "finance minister", claims that The Vatican's assets are $5
billion. he adds that " Income to the Holy See from bishops' dioceses
has more than tripled from 1990 levels, to $22 million in 2000." he
also says, "That [$5 billion] doesn't include the Vatican City, which
has a separate financial statement. If property is used for Church
purposes and could never be sold, the value of it is considered 1
lire, or nearly zero." The City's assets are "The revenues in 2000
were $180 million. The net surplus was $22 million, but that
fluctuates greatly since we're responsible for the maintenance of all
buildings, and it's extremely costly. One year we have a profit of $1
million and the next year $10 million. We put the surplus in a
reserve, so we have it when the next work is needed" (Szoka refuses to
refer directly to the Vatican Bank's assets). <source:
http://www.wrns.org/parse.php?idd=4537>

Further Reading:
Forum on Reese's book: www.georgetown.edu/centers/woodstock/
report/r-fea48.htm
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&group=alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic

I also sought the Internet - I must say that I mainly found
religiously biased attacks on the Vatican and newspaper articles,
nothing "serious". However, my search links were:
vatican finances
vatican assets"
vatican "estimated assets"
"liquid assets" "catholic church"

I think that answered your question - as much as such a question could
be answered. However, if you need any clarifications, please ask
before you rate the answer, and I'll be happy to provide some

[XxsourdieselxX]

thats 15 years old im not wayting my time but they have mad loot as a private org done on subject

[TheRealist]

thats 15 years old im not wayting my time but they have mad loot as a private org done on subject

Now compare it to the United States and you'll see that they in no way come close to eachother as far as net assets/net worth/GDP/etc. in regards to eachother.

[resnor]

No, Realist, you're wrong. 2 or 3 billion dollars of net worth is equal to the net worth of the U.S. :rolleyes:;):D

[Nevada_Ballin]

and the reason they can sell it cheaper is because of the leverage walmart hold to companies, all they have to say is give it to us 3 dollars cheaper per case well buy 100000 more..... ima not make it personal, so nevada doesnt have to remind me

Thank you :)

Here's the thing on this though. I'm going to use my business as a real-life example here. Right now I buy material from a company in michigan which includes freight to Nevada. Then I take it to another company to be cut, then pick it up, QC it, package it and ship. Not revealing real numbers, I'll use the generic figure of $10 per product out my door.

Now I'm presently looking at a new injection molded second-gen PhatGrip that will fit like the original focus group we had suggested. Leaving out the tooling costs (which would be amotized into the price), if i have this done in the USA, I'd be looking at $12 per product out my door - but i can have this done in guandong, china for $5 per product out my door. A very significant difference to the business bottom line.

As a business person operating in a world that's revolving around a global economy these days, I cannot ignore the savings in the cost from having this done in China, which in turn leads to a better price for my customers which in turn leads to more business (and profit) for me. Unless a US company can compete with that cost to me, it only makes sense as a business person to have this product made overseas.

In a thread a couple months back, the VGers profoundly stated that "made in america" meant nothing and in a lot of cases meant a product of lesser quality so that's not an issue.