Running The Run-n-shoot W/ Hfa On???

[TrojanNole]

CrazyOldMan and AIR RAID, how are we suppose to run the RUN N SHOOT this year with that stupid HFA on? I cannot get a single audlible changed on the LOS or even get some HOT ROUTES done because of the HFA.

I'm 3-0 at home and scoring 31 or more points per game but AWAY I have only scored 7 combined points. Any ideas or plays without having to HOT so many players at the LOS?

[Air Raid]

Trojan-

Well I don't think that there is any type of easy and/or quick fix to overcoming HFA.....It is the sole reason why I'm not a straight R-N-S baller this year.....In fact it has driven me to a real power running attack, I've started using South Carolina's playbook and have really started to pound it out from teh SG and power sets....(I still use my R-N-S often because I like the challenge...)

Here are my suggestions:

(1) Time, the more time you have at the line of scrimmage, the more time you have to Audible or Hot route multiple times....which is a must at away games.

(2) Use your running game! Just because it is the R-N-S doesn't mean you can't use the running game to control the crowd....(if you are skilled with the flexbone that you use, this could be a great equalizer!!)

(3) Make most of your Audibles/Hot Routes on 2nd down....try to find base plays (plays that work against both man and zone) on first down....for some reason it is easier on 2nd down then it is on 1st and 3rd to call Audibles....

(4) Try and use Hot Routes more than Audibles.....hot routes are quicker to call multiple times......(hey when in doubt get your best reciever in position to make a play...like calling a streak if you know the D is going to blitz)

(5) Try to shrink your playbook (ie: the plays that you call) down to those plays that don't require a lot of adjustments...this is much easier said then done, because this limits your ability to execute the R-N-S.....

(6) Use the high percentage passes (unders, crossing routes, screens etc.) early and often to gain momentum...don't try and come out gunning right away (I hate to say that because I think an offense should be aggressive, but you might not have a choice with HFA...)

(7) Take the crowd out of it with success....this is the obvious one and the hardest to do.....the better you do the less the crowd gets into it....but everyone already knew that....

(8) If you see a weakness in thier D.....like they always blitz with the MLB...don't be afraid of going outside the guidlines of the R-N-S to capitalize on it....call a slant and burn him everytime until he stops....Remember teh R-N-S is a philosophy and sometimes your philosophy has to change according to the atmosphere....

Hope these helps.......HFA is HARD (TOO HARD in my opinion)

[TrojanNole]

AIR RAID , thanks for the break down! I am going to take your advice on all the points you made. Your right about alot of things, esp. on using hot routes more than changing the play at the LOS.

I've actually had to change my offense back to the power like u said and go back to the ACe Big Twins, but I like the RUN N SHOOT cause its so much flasher and exciting to exacute.

Let me work on this tonight and I will let u know how things go tomorrow! :confused:

[Air Raid]

Hey we are all in this together! If I can help you get better or vice versa, that's what it's all about! :)

I will be curious to know if any of these work for you :rolleyes: ....I'm really working on a "go to plan" that isn't cheese that I can use in every situation... something that I can fall back on whenever I need to....and input on how these types of things work would be great!

[phrozzy]

I don't understand how slants and short in routes are high percentage. If the LB(s) drop into a zone, all they have to do is step foward 2-3 steps and get in the way of my receiver or get a hand out. I understand if they blitz it works very well but how do you run those against a zone especially when all 3 Lbs drop back negating the slant.

[CrazyOldGuy]

TNole,

Great Question!! I talked about it with VTHOK and I must totally agree with Airraid. My opinion HFA is unrealistic. I mentioned why on the orginal rns thread...

Just adding to Airraid thoughts:
However if you want to compete with it on expect to become more of a Power Spread Team. Do not be afraid to run the ball. I've played Tennesee and Florida with HFA on. Using D1aa teams like Portland State and Eastern Illinois, I gained what I feel were unrealistic amounts of running yards against these teams and often my running stats where far better than my passing stats.. but that's the way NCAA 2k5 is.. run the ball and run the ball until the cows come home if you have to.

I always no huddle but against HFA as Airraid says it becomes even more important to get to the LOS and call the plays quickly and repeatedly as time allows.

Sample game series for me..

called play Draw
Audibles [] QB option, X Weakside Off tackle, 0 Speed option,

Not a lot of passing I know and I can be very hard headed about trying to pass even though HFA makes the HOTS hard so also try more of the balanced routes. the impact on these routes without the hots is minimal.

Also be prepared to pass on your side of the 50, the crowd tends not to be as rowdy on your side of the 50?

Phrozzy-

Were you referring to a specific route combination or just in general???

[blackpowdereer]

Here is something else I have learned the hard way with the HFA.

Unless you hit your first couple of passes...your QB's OVR drops significantly. So...I try and start the game with some short dinks...just slants over the middle or TE flares....just short and sweet....the object is to keep your QB's confidence up. Stick to your game plan....if your gonna play Power Spread....hit the HB out of the backfield...another easy pass. Anything to keep his confidence up. However, if you don't and his OVR drops....don't hesitate to sit him down and put your second guy in. I will do this if his OVR drops more than 5 points. At that point...he won't hit a single pass...no matter HOW open your reciever is.

I, too have stated on this, and several other boards that I think the HFA is cheese. I have gotten to the point where I won't accept a challange from anyone unless I have:
A. Checked their stats
B. Have played them before
C. Match up well with the opposing team

It is unrealistic, in real gameplay, to not be able to get off audibles or hot routes. The confidence factor is something I can and HAVE dealt with successfully. But it is Total cheese for me to be penalized to play in a top 20 stadium....usually against a higher ranked team....(and we ALL know how EA has a love affair with some teams) and can't play my game. And my game involves changing up at the line of scrimmage....I read the defenses...and this is how I get MY edge against more powerful teams. So...I just don't accept challanges....and if I do get challanged by a NON top 20 team...and they try and change up before the game starts...(a LOT of people like to do this...like they think they are being sneaky) I just back out. It has NOTHING to do with my record...I could care less....it has to do with playing even. And Playing in the EvenTeam option doesn't really help....the HFA is worth at least two touchdowns.....

/jmho

[getting awn]

It is unrealistic, in real gameplay, to not be able to get off audibles or hot routes. The confidence factor is something I can and HAVE dealt with successfully. But it is Total cheese for me to be penalized to play in a top 20 stadium....usually against a higher ranked team....(and we ALL know how EA has a love affair with some teams) and can't play my game. And my game involves changing up at the line of scrimmage....I read the defenses...and this is how I get MY edge against more powerful teams. So...I just don't accept challanges....and if I do get challanged by a NON top 20 team...and they try and change up before the game starts...(a LOT of people like to do this...like they think they are being sneaky) I just back out. It has NOTHING to do with my record...I could care less....it has to do with playing even. And Playing in the EvenTeam option doesn't really help....the HFA is worth at least two touchdowns.....

/jmho
I agree with u. I have plyed with Missouri for at least 15 games. I have plyed LSU, Nebraska, Michighan, Tennesse, FSU, Texas, and Auburn... HFA is so ridiculous that it hurts. How can the defense call audibles with the noise level so high. They should suffer at the same point. This has been said in other threads. The worst is when u r in shotgun, and ur RUNNING BACK can't hear u. He is standing right next to u!!!!! There were a couple of times I could've lost but I am a seasoned plyer and have been able to adjust. But HFA was suppose to make it a challenge, not an unconquerable one. They don't take away fewer points if u lose in a high HFA stadium. So I definitely try to stay away from high ranked teams such as OK, Miami, and Ohio state. Forget about mentioning USC.... They can kiss my @ss b4 I ply them... lol it is bad enough to ply strong defenses, but to ply them at home... I may b cocky, but I am not stupid. I ply in the ply now functioin, so I don't know who I am plying against. But I will definitely back out of a ridiculous match up if I am the away team. I still won't ply Miami, Ohio state, or USC at home either.
:cool:

[TrojanNole]

Hey dont bang my boys (USC), we were sucky on last years game and this year there the best but I dont play them cause of that.

[Air Raid]

Don't bang USC? Where is the respect for my Cougs? 30 wins the last 3 seasons (including Texas last year in the holiday Bowl), with their only loses coming against USC (last year), Ohio State, Oklahoma, Notre Dame and those DAMN Huskies (Why can't we beat those guys??), but yet we never get preseason love!!! (well OK, maybe because we lost 25 Lettermen last year and we can't beat the Huskies LOL!)

Actually the only team I see as overrated is Texas, I mean come'on! With supposedly the best recriuting classes year in and year out and ALWAYS being ranked in the top 10 in the preseason, you would think that these guys would win something :D ...why don't they have to prove it?

And don't get me started on that East Coast Bias! It does exist....just look at who is ranked now...Only four teams west of the Big 12 are ranked and one of them is the Oregon Ducks...the Ducks???...Ummmm last I checked, they STILL do not have a defense!!!....And why was USC NOT playing in the BCS title game last year?? Oh that's right Oklahoma had a really good first half of the year, where they beat that tough Texas team, Please!!!!!

OK my rant is done.....by the way TrojanNole...I don't like USC (WSU Alumni and Notre Dame fan :D ), but I have mad respect for them and thier current coaching staff......To watch them in person is a work of Art!

Let the Flaming begin (Be nice :) )

[getting awn]

Hey dont bang my boys (USC), we were sucky on last years game and this year there the best but I dont play them cause of that.
I said they can kiss my @ss b4 I ply them. I ply with USC under USC all day... So I go anywhere with them. The hardest place to win is at Ohio state. They have one of the quickest secondary Units in the game. I ply with them under croffman. What can u do against 98,97 corners with safeties @ 88+, 90ish. Line backers with great awareness and top out with spd 84 I think. I love Ohio state. That is a shut down defense. One of the toughest if u ply them right. I don't do bump and run. It is way to dangerous.
:cool:

[blackpowdereer]

I gotta tell ya.....this happened last night.

I challanged this guy who was shooting his mouth off in the Online Lounge. Of course he changed his team from VT to Ohio State. I said Let's Roll. He started off with a good mix of runs and passes....he was moving the ball....he was on the 22 and passed into the endzone....my CB, PacMan Jones intercepted. My first play from scrimmage was a short dink to my TE over the middle....it was deflected by the MONSTER LB's they have and intercepted by a DT and ran it back for a TD. OK...np....I get the ball and start my usual offense....a mix of run and pass....and this guy stays in the 4-4 and blitzes EVERY play. I can't get a thing off....he stuffs my passing game...my outside running game...my inside running game. I can't get a thing going. I am mad...but I'm thinking....hmmmmm it hurts but I continue to think. I punt, he get's the ball again and does his impersonation of a long ball cheeser and hits another TD. OK...I'm REALLY pissed now. I challanged this guy and he's spanking me like a biatch.
He's up 14-0 at the end of the 1st quarter.....I get the ball at the start of the 2nd qt and figure "what the hell". I do a PA from the Ace Big Twins....and get it off just before his monsters nail me. BOOM!! First Down on the 22. 60 yard catch and run. I settle down and dink and dink and dink and finally get in the endzone....on a QB sneak.

OK...14-7 and he's driving with 2 minutes left...I stuff him and he kicks a field goal....17-7 at the end of the half.

He comes out and I kick....I stuff him and he punts...but his damn blitzes are killing me....and his LB's are FAST....and SMART. He is playing me like a violin. He stops me and I punt. He starts his Long Bomb cheese again...and I start blitzing him....MadBombers 4-3 Fire Green works and I hit the QB and get a fumble. But it wasn't to be...he stuffs me again and I miss a 37 yard field goal.....DAMN!!
The 3rd is winding down and he rolls again....I stop him on the 18 and he kicks another field goal. 20-7.....less than a minute in the 3rd....he kicks to me...and I get the ball on the 18.....I take out my 1st string QB...his OVR is down 7 points. Put in my second stringer....and start planning.....I start calling screens....call a couple of QB scrambles and get a run up the middle. Make a couple of short passes...and he stops blitzing...and goes into the Nickel. hehehe I start calling PA's....and BOOM...TD pass!....20 to 14 with 4 minutes left in the game. He gets the ball and I blitz and stuff him...he is one demensional now....I sit back in Cover 2 and 3 and wait for the bombs. I blitz with one guy every play. 4 and out.....I get it back and he's blitzing again....so I call a QB Draw....23 yards!....he stops blitzing and is back in the nickel....his coverage is sitting in prevent....so I hit under him...over and over...for 10, 22, 19, and finally 12. Then BOOM! TD to Chris Henry on a Streak......21-20 with 1:38....I stuff him again and get down for a field goal....24-20 end of game. I am HYPED!!.....LOL
I could hardly go to sleep.....

Point of story?? the Bucks are a TOUGH team...but they CAN be beaten....

[rr2418]

He starts his Long Bomb cheese again

What was he doing that was cheese?

[blackpowdereer]

Bomb....bomb....bomb.....bomb....4 plays....4 long bombs.

Cheese

[phrozzy]

Phrozzy-

Were you referring to a specific route combination or just in general???

Just the routes in general but if you want to get specific, i use Run and Gun pb and my favorite plays that involve slants and shallow posts are

I normal : I forgot what it was called but you have the FB in a delayed flat, TE on a drag, and the two receivers run shallow posts

Shotgun Two back: WR slant

weakside I : i forgot what the formation was called but it has the fb offset to the weakside and receivers line up on opposite sides. The plays out of this is TE drag and WR slant

[getting awn]

.....I get it back and he's blitzing again....so I call a QB Draw....23 yards!....he stops blitzing and is back in the nickel....his coverage is sitting in prevent....so I hit under him...over and over...for 10, 22, 19, and finally 12. Then BOOM! TD to Chris Henry on a Streak......21-20 with 1:38....I stuff him again and get down for a field goal....24-20 end of game. I am HYPED!!.....LOL
I could hardly go to sleep.....

Point of story?? the Bucks are a TOUGH team...but they CAN be beaten....
U got a guy that didn't know how to use OHIO State. I would've crushed u... :D . But good win....

[getting awn]

Hey dont bang my boys (USC), we were sucky on last years game and this year there the best but I dont play them cause of that.
I got challenged by this plyer. Florida vs. USC, he was plying at home. I had him down 21-0 b4 the first half was over. He quit, and I proceeded to bust the cpu @ss 63-0.. I had over 500+ yds of total offense... That's how I roll with USC!!!! ;)

[blackpowdereer]

U got a guy that didn't know how to use OHIO State. I would've crushed u... :D . But good win....

Now, Now Awn.....hehehe the ONLY way to REALLY tell that is if we meet on the field.....you got game??

Crushed?? hmmmmm I would be anxious to find out.....what say you??

[CrazyOldGuy]

Phrozzy..

I'll start with the general because I'm not a run and gun pb expert. On slant and post routes I always like to have an inside receiver that is controling the underneath coverage. My favorite thing to do is convert the guy inside of a slant route to a streak to hold the lb and the safety. On slants I like to read INSIDE to OUTSIDE. Does the inside receiver have a hole or a window? NO.. come back to the slant

Now on POST routes... I like to have an inside receiver cut outside the post to drag the inside coverage to the outside.

Let's take a look at that I formation play that you like. I'll refer to the receivers by the button position this time, take the O and motion him to the weakside. Now I like to Hot the O to an out cut, but if the HFA is in full effect and going wacko don't worry about it O's outside cutting slant will work.

Watch the coverage as it pulls outside do I have a chance to hit that post, with the crazy 2k5 defenses you can really go wild against the cpu hitting the post if you have that outside cut underneath. If the defenses are flooding back to get underneath the post or he's double covered then go back to the O outside cut/outside slant, then to the te or X crossing

I call the concept Camden because I learned it from a High School coach, but I think its probably one of the older concepts in football.

The timing on the slants and post can become easier if you practice it trying to gather a FEEL for what the inside defenders are doing, on the Weakside I play the TE's or X 's route the outside or on the Shotgun 2 back the rb's outside can be great answers for the times when the defenders just want to keep dropping off into coverage. I also like to try and hit the slant routes about a step after the recevier makes his cut.

I hope this was somewhat helpful!!

[getting awn]

Now, Now Awn.....hehehe the ONLY way to REALLY tell that is if we meet on the field.....you got game??

Crushed?? hmmmmm I would be anxious to find out.....what say you??
Just name the place and time. Name the place and time.. LOL.... I will bring my Ohio State Crushers with me... lol :eek:

Look me up under Croffman. I will b on tonight under that name. JUST FOR U.....LOL :cool:

[blackpowdereer]

Awn....I play on xbox.....and u??

[getting awn]

I ply on PS2. Oh well....

[blackpowdereer]

NOT FAIR!! I SO looked forward to rubbing your nose in the "crush" adjective hehehehehe.....Maybe one day.....sigh..... :D

[Air Raid]

Black and Awn-

That's too bad, Would have been interesting to see who would have won.... :)

[getting awn]

NOT FAIR!! I SO looked forward to rubbing your nose in the "crush" adjective hehehehehe.....Maybe one day.....sigh..... :D
I was thinking about buying an xbox also... :p

[blackpowdereer]

Kewl...let me know when you do.....we can get it on, online. I hope your getting it for another reason than NCAA 2005, though....cause if that is the only reason...you'll be disappointed. :(

Plus...I'll only play ya if AirRaid and Crazy and Trojan can officate....Madbomber will be the replay guy. hehehe

[TrojanNole]

I see AWN and BLACK talking a little smack, which is fine, but I no longer have any intentions of playing anyone in here no longer. For a couple of reasons.
1. I dont think I'm good enough to face anyone in here and I not in here to make rivals, I already have friends for that.
2. There is a auroua in this forum and alot of players I respect that I have learned from. I can tell there are players in here that know real football and players in here that know alot about the video game. Theres a difference and I think mostly of us are trying to combine the two together.
3. I did play someone in here and got beated badly, although I'm not complaining that player at the time, did what I thought he wasnt going to be, cheesy. But, I dont mind it I just thought I would get beat by sheer football knowledge but got beat by AB blitz's and long bombs.
Just my 2 cents worth.

[TrojanNole]

Thought about and and no, no one should play, go find other opponents to play againest and share your experience with us.

Dont make sense to start grudges in this group of what I think is the best football knowledge players that follows into the game.