Iraq

[Xx Shadow_Baller xX]

your veiws? i hear barak is bringing everyone back. but what about afganistan? i think we should send more actually. the quicker we win the quicker we withdraw in victory. i dont like the idea of forfit.

[Nevada_Ballin]

Hey Kip, in all fairness I appreciate your willingness to get involved in the political forums, i think all young people should take interest in their country's politics so they aren't so naive to how the real world works.But please be advised that things in here can get very passionate because we talk about real issues that have a real affect on everyone's daily lives..... so it's definitely worth your while to do a little bit of homework before posting.

Case in point:

Not everyone is coming back from Iraq until Iraq says it can secure itself

More troops have already been ordered to Afghanistan just a couple days ago ( i believe I posted that in here)

The words "win" and "forfeit" when talking about Iraq will absolutely turn into heated discussion (not a bad thing but I'm just sayin' lol). Some people believe it is a "winnable situation" and then there are others who believe it is a no-win situation. People will post link after link, government document after government document and youtube after youtube to try to make their argument the right argument.

I don't want to sway you away from posting here, I'm just letting you know that the water in this pool is REALLY deep :)

[theanalogkid]

The people who believe Iraq is a winnable situation have been living in a dream world for quite some time. The facts have always been that Iraq has never had a democracy. Doesn't have a widespread diversity, and people in general don't like to be told what government they are going to have.

You go to Iraq and start talking about what Iraqis think about democracy, and you'll get a very clear rejection of it. The only reason the government stands there is because it's being backed by the US military. Take that away and the government gets overthrown very quickly. (of course the Iraq War supports will start pointing fingers at the people who let it happen, rather than pointing the fingers at themselves for getting involved in the first place)

All the Iraq War has accomplished is to allow Iran to take a greater hold in the region. The blowback from this is going to be undeniably clear.

[NumenorBlader]

I've talked to quite a few sources closer to the Iraq War than most. One of my good friends is Iraqi and his family escaped Saddam Hussein's reign around the time of the Gulf War. The second source was a high ranking military official working with the Ministry of Defence (MoD) in the UK. I had lunch with him as part of a school discussion. Here's what I gathered:

1) [From the friend]...Iraqis did want Saddam out. They did want change. Dictatorship - it's not a nice thing and as one can imagine is very imprisoning. BUT now Saddam's out, Iraqis want to be recognised as independent. They do want regime change. They do want to be able to sentence their criminals themselves. They do want these things. But at the same time they realise that the Allied presence is what's keeping them alive. If they didn't, insurgency would rise to disastrous levels. It already is - but as we are so far away dealing with people everyone tends to villify, it's as though ordinary citizens aren't really thought of. All that's thought of is the effect of winning and losing the war as if we get some personal gain out of it. NEWSFLASH: Whatever gain the Allies get out of it is VERY SMALL in proportion to whatever ordinary Iraqis can get out of it.

2) [From the military official]... He served in Afganhistan but has an active role in the region as a whole. What are his thoughts? This is not a war of GUNS, BULLETS, AMMUNITION, ROCKETS.... ITS NOT... ITS A WAR OF INFORMATION. It really is about (as the old Vietnam saying went), "Hearts and Minds" of the people. Think about it this way. A platoon of soldiers winds up in the middle of your suburbian area and just takes over. Well, not exactly - but starts planting military bases and guns and what not - disrupts your lifestyle - then as a result your area gets attacked. There is such a mixed feeling I imagine for such villages/people: they are at one time under severe oppression and the next their saviours are bringing war to their plains. With a language barrier. It's difficult. So essentially, what we must do is work with Iraqis, Afganistanis and make them a part of the shaping of their country. It's going to be difficult - but it's a war of information. Remember that.

[From my own views]... There are a lot of parallels between this and Vietnam that must be made and analysed. I feel a lot of Vietnam was fought in vain, based merely on fear of what could be. This is similar, but different equally. This can be seen as a war in vain fought be the "World Police a.k.a. We Don't Want You Here Police"... but they are liberating people from an oppressive, hated regime. Now there are 2 options: 1) Withdraw once the job is done, like Vietnam, and watch Iraq crumble. 2) Stay in Iraq for a LOOOONG Time, fighting this war of information, but ultimately educating people.

Newsflash: Iraq will not be the USA's puppet state. This isn't the Cold War Era.

Remember though - that all the time fought in Vietnam ultimately meant Vietnam went under Communist rule ('74)... then what happened later? They became Capitalist by themselves. There we go.

Blader.

[Xx Shadow_Baller xX]

Hey Kip, in all fairness I appreciate your willingness to get involved in the political forums, i think all young people should take interest in their country's politics so they aren't so naive to how the real world works.But please be advised that things in here can get very passionate because we talk about real issues that have a real affect on everyone's daily lives..... so it's definitely worth your while to do a little bit of homework before posting.

Case in point:

Not everyone is coming back from Iraq until Iraq says it can secure itself

More troops have already been ordered to Afghanistan just a couple days ago ( i believe I posted that in here)

The words "win" and "forfeit" when talking about Iraq will absolutely turn into heated discussion (not a bad thing but I'm just sayin' lol). Some people believe it is a "winnable situation" and then there are others who believe it is a no-win situation. People will post link after link, government document after government document and youtube after youtube to try to make their argument the right argument.

I don't want to sway you away from posting here, I'm just letting you know that the water in this pool is REALLY deep :)

gotcha. (10)