Cheese Play, or not???

[JWBama]

Guys, (Trojanole, Air Raid, COG, Awn, Kbell) I searched the forum quickly & did not see anything on this, but recently I have been the victim of what I consider a cheese play, and I wondered if you guys had encountered it. I hate to mention it if it is not a widely known cheese, but it is based out of the Ace Normal, HB Screen play. There is what I believe to be a glitch in coverage and with the correct timing and WR / QB combination (the guy used FSU against me) it is very tough, if not impossible to defend. Also, the guy tore me up with the SG 2B Slot Slot cross hitting the "In" route to his main [] PS2 receiver. Any suggestions on either of these plays, and has anyone experienced the play I spoke of first?

[Air Raid]

..Need more info on exactly what happens whith the screen play, I haven't seen anything from that play that I would consider cheese....but maybe you could tell us a little more...is he throwing to the HB or the WR?....I know in 03 and 04 you could call that play, hike the ball, take your QB and run away from the D for about 10 yards or so and then thow back to the HB and he would normally be wide open with blockers in front, if you caught your opponent off gaurd, but it could be stopped if you knew it was coming and didn't over persue the QB...........

...As far as the Slot Cross play from the SG 2-Back Slot formation... that is one of my favorite passing plays :D , but the key to it is having time to throw it, so if you can get pressure on him you should be able to stop it, either that or play double coverage on the reciever or manually control a safety and get good at swatting the ball away....You will also notice that there are a couple of plays from different formations that have that same type of "In" action and they are great passing plays as well (ie: FL Cross from SG Y-Trips).......maybe even try a cover 3 defense that covers the middle of the field and jump the pass..........

[JWBama]

Air,
The guy snaps the ball, immediately throwing a bullet to the [] (PS2) receiver on the left side. 8-10yds minimum each time. I have practiced it in the lab & had success doing the same thing against many different D's, but this guy seemed to have it down to an art. Try it & let me know what you think. The Slot cross play is also one of my favorites. I have great success with it as well and have not had many people stop me from completing the pass. I am going to practice tonight & re-create both these scenarios and attempt to cover them. Any help would be appreciated.

[Air Raid]

...hmmmm...interesting to say the least.....does this happen even against bumb and run?......I will have to try this out at see what I can see.....I'm interested now.......

[JWBama]

I haven't labbed up enough D's to really say how efficient he is against all. I did try Bump-N-Run running a zone blitz & he completed it against me. I will try the dbl outs or some variation of that with bump-run coverage. I will try tonight & see what happens. Let me know, but I think we have yet another cheese to stop...

[rhombic21]

Was there any sort of motion involved?

I messed around with the play and didn't find anything exceptional about it, unless you split the HB out to the left, in which case you get the same effect as I talked about here (http://www.vgsportsinc.com/forums/showthread.php?p=87138#post87138)

[JWBama]

I'm about to try it in the lab, but no motion involved at all. Just simply throwing a bullet to that outside receiver.

[JWBama]

After going into the lab last night & really looking at this play, I feel that I didn't get cheesed. This is actually a pretty good play when used against certain defenses. When you run the play as I described against 4-2-5 zone blitzes and even the quarters play, it's very successful. I would say in the lab, especially against a 4-2-5 Dog zone blitz, this play is 80% successful with correct timing. It is easy to defend with various other defenses, but still has success, although at a much lower %. I must say, I just had my head in my a$$ & didn't play good D against him, so it's on me. I recommend you guys add this to your game plan against zone blitzes.

[Air Raid]

...I agree....I looked at this play last night for close to an hour and found that it could be defended if you put linebackers or nickel backs in the way of the pass (ie: 3-4 defense)....plus if you double team the WR and bring down the safety at the line of scrimmage it is also very hard to complete the pass....however, if the D sits in zone and the corner plays off his reciever this play is a very nice quick hitter for someone who nows the timing.....I found it to be a very nice combo with HB dive.......I set the HB dive as an audible and then pick this play and see how the D matches up....if they take away the quick hit...I go with the dive......very nice!

.....I also found that using this same quick strike strategy with the HB Screen from SG Y-Trips works, but you throw to the "O" reciever....just motion the slot to the other side and if they leave your "O" reciever in man coverage (or zone is even better) hit him quick right after the snap for 7-10 yards (It works well because his route has a small slant motion to the inside right at the start before he fades to the outside, so he gets a little seperation from the corner off the line of scrimmage)....

[booboogator]

Do you mean the Shotgun Trips formation, I didnt see "Slot Cross play from the SG 2-Back Slot formation"

[Air Raid]

.....I think he means Slot Corner from the SG 2-Back Slot formation where the [] reciever runs the 10 yard in route.......slot cross is on SG Trips and FL cross is in SG Y-Trips.........

[JWBama]

My bad, SG 2B Slot, Slot Corner

[JWBama]

Good idea with the HB Dive, Air. I have always loved the symmetrical formations and their quick audibling potential. I am with you, though, a pretty nice quick hitter and I had several go the distance during practice mode, especially in a man coverage scenario with my receiver getting a step on the CB. I'll have to try the SG Y Trips version as well.