Democrat wins House seat in heavily GOP area in NY

[Gtrght77]

ALBANY, N.Y. — A Democrat running in a historically Republican stronghold won a closely watched special congressional election in northern New York on Tuesday, capitalizing on a split that emerged between moderates and conservatives for control of the GOP.

With 92 percent of the precincts reporting early Wednesday, lawyer and retired Air Force Capt. Bill Owens defeated businessman Doug Hoffman, the Conservative Party candidate, 49 percent to 45 percent, after a boost from unified labor efforts in the last days of the campaign and the withdrawal of the Republican candidate over the weekend.

"This has been an extraordinary journey," said Owens, who thanked his family, President Barack Obama and Vice President Joe Biden.

"The process of bringing people together to get results is something I've been doing for a long time, and that's what I'm going to continue to do when I get to Washington," he added.

Owens also thanked one-time opponent Dierdre Scozzafava, a moderate Republican who exited the race Saturday under pressure from the party's right wing because of her support of abortion rights and same-sex marriage and momentum behind Hoffman. Scozzafava, an assemblywoman in the state legislature, picked up 6 percent of the vote herself.

The race has been getting national attention, with some calling it a referendum on President Barack Obama and others saying it could help Republicans focus their message to attract more people to the party.

Republicans hadn't lost in the region in more than a century. Owens defeated Hoffman despite a 45,000-voter registration edge for Republicans and big-name endorsements for Hoffman from former vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin, former Republican Sen. Fred Thompson and others. Hoffman had rallied an unexpected level of support in the final days of the campaign, ultimately forcing Scozzafava to quit when he surged past her in the polls.

"This is only one fight in the battle, people," Hoffman said before a gathering of supporters in Saranac Lake, N.Y., after conceding the race. "Let's keep the fight going. Let's make sure our voices are heard."

Steven Greenberg of the Siena College poll, which has most closely tracked the race, said voters probably didn't pick Owens because they thought a Democrat could extract more federal largess from Washington, now in the hands of Democrats.

"I don't think it even goes to that level for most voters," Greenberg. "It's about, `Who is going to fight for us?'"

Owens will be up for election for a full term next year.

The race took several sharp curves leading up to Election Day. It started with Scozzafava in the lead while Hoffman was considered a spoiler at best. That gradually turned around, with Hoffman leading 41-36 in a Siena poll a day before the race.

Despite the fervor that surrounded Hoffman in the final week of the campaign, Owens managed to appeal to the voters with his talk of job creation and the need of more federal support for Fort Drum and farmers.

"I don't believe the vast majority of voters in the 23rd District — be they Democrats or Republicans or independents — are looking at this as a referendum on Barack Obama or as a referendum on the Republican Party or the Democratic Party or Rush Limbaugh or any of that," he said. "I think the vast majority of voters in the 23rd are saying, `We had us a great congressman in Congressman McHugh. Which of these candidates can do a better job representing me in Washington on the things that matter to me?'"

Such issues include jobs, the economy, taxes, health care, education, the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq and the Army base at Fort Drum.

New York state now has only two Republican congressmen in its 29-seat delegation.

Copyright


That GOP split might actually do some damage.

[Gtrght77]

http://www.mndaily.com/2009/11/03/gop-moderates-leave-our-tent


The race for New York’s 23rd Congressional District has been an unexpected battleground for the future of the GOP. The race originally had two Republican candidates: moderate Dede Scozzafava and standard conservative Douglas Hoffman. The GOP originally endorsed Scozzafava, who, unlike Hoffman, supports same-sex marriage and abortion rights.

Then the far right went ballistic, with archconservatives like Bill Kristol and Minnesota’s own Michele Bachmann jumping on the Hoffman bandwagon. Sarah Palin endorsed Hoffman via Facebook, calling Scozzafava “a candidate who more than blurs the lines” ideologically. Right-wing talk radio host Rush Limbaugh quickly rallied behind Hoffman, as did Minnesota Gov. Tim Pawlenty. Her own party’s attacks caused Scozzafava to drop out of the race and endorse the Democratic candidate, Bill Owens, specifically mentioning his “integrity that will guide him beyond political partisanship.” The Republican National Committee then endorsed Hoffman, and the Republican Party smugly returned to small-tent social conservatism.

This race portends a frightening future for the GOP; its far-right members won’t let it select moderate candidates, instead preferring the ideologically pure. Their language is disturbing; several have called Scozzafava’s candidacy a betrayal, in addition to Palin’s “blurs the lines” comment. In the wake of Ron Paul, a libertarian revival and a 2008 electoral trouncing, rather than read the tea leaves of party growth and realignment, the GOP has chosen exclusion and narrow ideology. It will now become increasingly marginalized, without a strong centrist constituency to elect candidates able to work in a bipartisan way to achieve practical results.

[TheSphinx 2.0]

I disagree that this loss is a negative for the far right of the GOP. The "conservative" side of the GOP pulled a candidate out of nowhere 30 days ago and he almost won. Also, the more moderate candidate that was supported byt he RNC that they ran out of the race endorsed the democrat when she stepped out. I think they are going to say that being able to be competitive in such a short period of time and the fact that the RNC candidate jumped shipped to the dems proves their point.

I don't know if it is good for the repubican party or not but I do believe (just as I said about the dems) that trying to copy the other party is the surest way to defeat. Repubs can't be "democrat light" just like I said that the dems in 2002 where trying to be "republican light" and that led to a smashing in 2004. If republicans want to win they have to play to their base. They will never out democrat the democrats so the more they move to the center the more they lose out on both ends.

I am sure the conservatives will count this as a win. We will all have to wait until 2010 to see if it is. What is sure is that this new conservative coalition will pick off more and more moderate republicans. This could help the democrats if they splinter the party or it could help the republicans if they can craft a message as to what they stand for.

-TS

Here is a piece from a far-right (and biased) blog. They are obviously trying to spin the defeat but I think they actually believe this. Like I said if it splits the party then dems clean up but if the republicans fall in line it will be interesting. I said it about the dems and I'll say it about the republicans...over time going to the right (left for dems) and pulling the middle with you is the only way to win.


Hoffman may have lost narrowly, but NY-23 is a much broader victory for conservatives who believe the Republican Party should stand for core limited government principles. Scozzafava, who was endorsed by far Left blogger Markos Moulitsas Zuniga and backed by Planned Parenthood, the National Education Association, and card-check-promoting trade unions, was denied the congressional seat because movement conservatives refused to support Arlen Specter in a skirt. This is a victory of principle.

Better a donkey in office that acts like a donkey than a donkey in elephant’s clothing making a complete *** of the GOP.

Moreover, NY-23 is a victory for conservatives who refuse to be marginalized in the public square by either the unhinged left or the establishment right. A humble accountant from upstate New York exposed the hypocrisy of GOP leaders trying to solicit funds from conservatives by lambasting Pelosi and the Dems’ support for high taxes, Big Labor, and bigger government — while using conservatives’ money to subsidize a high-taxing, Big Labor-pandering, bigger government radical. The repercussions will be felt well beyond NY-23’s borders. Conservatives’ disgust with the status quo has been heard and felt. They have been silent too long. They will be silent no more.

The GOP leadership knows it cannot afford to rest on its laurels, continue business as usual, and bask in yesterday’s electoral victories without confronting its abysmal abdication of principled conservative leadership in NY-23.

As Hoffman said in his concession speech, “This is only one fight in the battle.”

Onward. Upward. Rightward.

[RicoVacilon]

I only saw glimpses last night before bed--but didn't the GOP do well last night?

[conviction]

As long as the incumbents lose I'm happy. We need to get some fresh faces in congress.

[Gtrght77]

I disagree that this loss is a negative for the far right of the GOP. The "conservative" side of the GOP pulled a candidate out of nowhere 30 days ago and he almost won. Also, the more moderate candidate that was supported byt he RNC that they ran out of the race endorsed the democrat when she stepped out. I think they are going to say that being able to be competitive in such a short period of time and the fact that the RNC candidate jumped shipped to the dems proves their point.

I don't know if it is good for the repubican party or not but I do believe (just as I said about the dems) that trying to copy the other party is the surest way to defeat. Repubs can't be "democrat light" just like I said that the dems in 2002 where trying to be "republican light" and that led to a smashing in 2004. If republicans want to win they have to play to their base. They will never out democrat the democrats so the more they move to the center the more they lose out on both ends.

I am sure the conservatives will count this as a win. We will all have to wait until 2010 to see if it is. What is sure is that this new conservative coalition will pick off more and more moderate republicans. This could help the democrats if they splinter the party or it could help the republicans if they can craft a message as to what they stand for.

-TS

Here is a piece from a far-right (and biased) blog. They are obviously trying to spin the defeat but I think they actually believe this. Like I said if it splits the party then dems clean up but if the republicans fall in line it will be interesting. I said it about the dems and I'll say it about the republicans...over time going to the right (left for dems) and pulling the middle with you is the only way to win.


I guess its positive if almost winning in a GOP stronghold is a good thing, they probably would of kept the seat if they weren't arguing about who the real conservative was.

[sideoutshu]

I guess its positive if almost winning in a GOP stronghold is a good thing, they probably would of kept the seat if they weren't arguing about who the real conservative was.

Uhm..... read your articles. There is no question who the conservative was.

The only thing you can get out of this race is the fact that here, like in VA and NJ, democrat policies are being rejected by the majority of voters. On a sidenote, this woman Scozzafavarafgdjfsjfgd will never be a serious party candidate again, unless it is for the dems.

[Gtrght77]

Uhm..... read your articles. There is no question who the conservative was.

The only thing you can get out of this race is the fact that here, like in VA and NJ, democrat policies are being rejected by the majority of voters. On a sidenote, this woman Scozzafavarafgdjfsjfgd will never be a serious party candidate again, unless it is for the dems.

Yeah the conservative lost.

[sideoutshu]

Yeah the conservative lost.

I honestly have a hard time figuring out whether you are hopelessly ignorant or just joking sometimes. I mean do you REALLY not get the fact that the democrat won, only because of the split between the other two candidates?

You are acting like the democrat being the beneficiary of the Perot effect is evidence of some type of madate. That is ridiculous.

[Gtrght77]

I honestly have a hard time figuring out whether you are hopelessly ignorant or just joking sometimes. I mean do you REALLY not get the fact that the democrat won, only because of the split between the other two candidates?

You are acting like the democrat being the beneficiary of the Perot effect is evidence of some type of madate. That is ridiculous.

That is the entire point of this thread. :p LMAO

What happens when this split happens on a national stage?

[sideoutshu]

That is the entire point of this thread. :p LMAO

What happens when this split happens on a national stage?

How is it going to happen on a national stage? Are you under the impression that Political parties only prepare for national elections for 30 days?

To be honest, if Obama keeps up his present rate of complete and utter failure, it won't matter.

When was the last time we heard the administration do something good?

[McMadden]

Some people here are just plain ignorant. Fox was all over the gubernatorial races that have historically gone opposite of the party that is in the White house. Jersey is a blue state and Virgina is purple. But here is what you are not hearing on Fox noise after be spoon fed.

Rush

Palin

Beck

Not a whimper on faux noise. And what did those three have in common?

They all campaigned for what should have been a lock for the republican candidate. Not since the civil war has that district gone Democrat! So R.P.B. the leaders of the true GOP didn't get the job done, with Obama in office. Using your logic, this should have been a cake walk, ................ and it wasn't. Rush epic fail, Palin epic fail, Beck epic fail, chew on that!

Not since the civil war!!!!! :eek::eek::eek: Are you kidding me, with those 3 clowns in your back yard they turned to a Democrat instead? Why does that escape you? Oh, faux noise forgot to mention those tidbits to ya. GOP needs to find out what went wrong in NY, Virgina and new jerseys was indeed an uphill battle. But NY? That was a given wasn't it. All those NY republicans must love Obama's policies riiiiiiigggghhhhttt? :rolleyes:

[sideoutshu]

Some people here are just plain ignorant. Fox was all over the gubernatorial races that have historically gone opposite of the party that is in the White house. Jersey is a blue state and Virgina is purple. But here is what you are not hearing on Fox noise after be spoon fed.

Rush

Palin

Beck

Not a whimper on faux noise. And what did those three have in common?

They all campaigned for what should have been a lock for the republican candidate. Not since the civil war has that district gone Democrat! So R.P.B. the leaders of the true GOP didn't get the job done, with Obama in office. Using your logic, this should have been a cake walk, ................ and it wasn't. Rush epic fail, Palin epic fail, Beck epic fail, chew on that!

Not since the civil war!!!!! :eek::eek::eek: Are you kidding me, with those 3 clowns in your back yard they turned to a Democrat instead? Why does that escape you? Oh, faux noise forgot to mention those tidbits to ya. GOP needs to find out what went wrong in NY, Virgina and new jerseys was indeed an uphill battle. But NY? That was a given wasn't it. All those NY republicans must love Obama's policies riiiiiiigggghhhhttt? :rolleyes:

Go away, you contribute nothing.

[Gtrght77]

Go away, you contribute nothing.

He contributes the same thing as any of us, including you.

[sideoutshu]

He contributes the same thing as any of us, including you.

How funny that you defend him since you guys have the same M.O.

[sideoutshu]

Some people here are just plain ignorant. Fox was all over the gubernatorial races that have historically gone opposite of the party that is in the White house. Jersey is a blue state and Virgina is purple. But here is what you are not hearing on Fox noise after be spoon fed.

Rush

Palin

Beck

Not a whimper on faux noise. And what did those three have in common?

They all campaigned for what should have been a lock for the republican candidate. Not since the civil war has that district gone Democrat! So R.P.B. the leaders of the true GOP didn't get the job done, with Obama in office. Using your logic, this should have been a cake walk, ................ and it wasn't. Rush epic fail, Palin epic fail, Beck epic fail, chew on that!

Not since the civil war!!!!! :eek::eek::eek: Are you kidding me, with those 3 clowns in your back yard they turned to a Democrat instead? Why does that escape you? Oh, faux noise forgot to mention those tidbits to ya. GOP needs to find out what went wrong in NY, Virgina and new jerseys was indeed an uphill battle. But NY? That was a given wasn't it. All those NY republicans must love Obama's policies riiiiiiigggghhhhttt? :rolleyes:

Just so we are clear, is the point of this post that you think Obama is doing a GOOD job, such that there is no way people would be unhappy with his policies and performance? If so, what, in your opinion have been the bright spots of his tenure thus far?

[JoeJGibbs]

Go away, you contribute nothing.

hahah if you get sideout to say this, you've really touched a nerve.

[JoeJGibbs]

Just so we are clear, is the point of this post that you think Obama is doing a GOOD job, such that there is no way people would be unhappy with his policies and performance? If so, what, in your opinion have been the bright spots of his tenure thus far?

hahaha nevermind.

[resnor]

1. That district hasn't been Republican held for the past 100 years. It was actually the 21st district, and held by a Dem through the 80's and early 90's, until redistricting, when it became the 23rd district.

2. THERE WAS NO PRIMARY!!! Had there been a PRIMARY, like NATIONAL ELECTIONS, then Hoffman would have been the Republican candidate, and he probably wins the election. By the way, Hoffman was NOT the Republican candidate...

3. Three weeks ago, NO ONE knew who this guy was...and he almost won.

4. Jersey and VA are heavily democratic. Spin it however you like, but Pubs taking those states is a big deal.

[djKianoosh]

... and VA are heavily democratic. Spin it however you like, but Pubs taking those states is a big deal.

No. Northern Virginia may have a heavy lean towards the dems. but the vast majority of the state is old conservative reps. Trust me. I know of what I speak. :)

I was down in the shenandoah valley this summer and some old dude accosted me saying crap like if you voted for obama you're part of the problem. this country's going to hell. we need the military to take over. i was like, sir, i'm just passing through this farmer's market on my vacation. lol. sheesh...

but anyway. anecdotes aside. this state is split. NoVA, around the DC area is more moderate and has some dems in the area. But the rest of the state is practically all republican. easily.

[resnor]

No. Northern Virginia may have a heavy lean towards the dems. but the vast majority of the state is old conservative reps. Trust me. I know of what I speak. :)

I was down in the shenandoah valley this summer and some old dude accosted me saying crap like if you voted for obama you're part of the problem. this country's going to hell. we need the military to take over. i was like, sir, i'm just passing through this farmer's market on my vacation. lol. sheesh...

but anyway. anecdotes aside. this state is split. NoVA, around the DC area is more moderate and has some dems in the area. But the rest of the state is practically all republican. easily.

What usually gets elected in VA?

[sideoutshu]

No. Northern Virginia may have a heavy lean towards the dems. but the vast majority of the state is old conservative reps. Trust me. I know of what I speak. :)

I was down in the shenandoah valley this summer and some old dude accosted me saying crap like if you voted for obama you're part of the problem. this country's going to hell. we need the military to take over. i was like, sir, i'm just passing through this farmer's market on my vacation. lol. sheesh...

but anyway. anecdotes aside. this state is split. NoVA, around the DC area is more moderate and has some dems in the area. But the rest of the state is practically all republican. easily.

Most of VA may be republican if you go by square miles, but the population centers are heavily democratic.

[djKianoosh]

What usually gets elected in VA?

Republicans usually take VA. for the last like 40 years or so.. that's why they made a big deal about Virginia going to Obama during the pres. elections.

and yeah, the big population centers go more democrat, but this isn't a true democracy where every vote counts equally. believe if you want or not, it was set up so that the big cities DON'T overly influence the vote. that's the whole point behind re-districting and the electoral college and all that stuff. politicians in this country have done an amazing job of redistricting over the decades. for both sides. anyway, we digress..

If it were down to pure votes, VA would go for dems. Downstate folks have a lot of power.

[JoeJGibbs]

Most of VA may be republican if you go by square miles, but the population centers are heavily democratic.

What does this mean though? There are more people surrounding cities.

But the state of Virigina is all rural area with bible thumpers religious zelot right wing folk.

[YoungVito]

I live in Jersey, and I voted on Tuesday. Contrary to what many Conservatives may want to think, I and most people who voted for Christie did not do it because of a desire to "reject" the OUR president and the Democratic policies. We did it because of CORZINE'S record and CORZINE'S RECORD ALONE.

I know, I know, politics is everywhere and its the job of the Republican leadership to spin this into some kind of referendum on the president. Just like the job of the Democratic leadership to downplay, but trust me when I tell you that OUR president's presence was irrelevant when going to the polls, and this is why...

If you went to the polls on Tues., you more than likely were NOT one of the New Voters who came out in droves last year. (You know...the ones who OVERWHELMINGLY voted for OUR president)

Casual voters vote for the president, hardcore voter vote in every election they have. And its a well known fact that demographically, it is the conservative voter who votes in every election. The REAL referendum on OUR president will come next year...at the mid terms LIKE IT ALWAYS DOES. And I can guarantee you no matter what OUR president does, Republicans will gain some ground in Congress. Its just how our system works. HOW MANY seats they win will depend on whether or not the party decides to embrace the "Big Tent" strategy that Ronald Regan talked about, or the "Purity" movement that has taken the party by storm. Most Americans are independent, whether the two parties want to believe it or not. Sorry to dissappoint the "wing nuts" on BOTH sides.

[djKianoosh]

... Most Americans are independent, whether the two parties want to believe it or not. Sorry to dissappoint the "wing nuts" on BOTH sides.

Couldn't agree more. on point.

[YoungVito]

John F. Kennedy would have lost this election here in Jersey with the property taxes we have...trust.

[sideoutshu]

John F. Kennedy would have lost this election here in Jersey with the property taxes we have...trust.

Only if he had a record over the last 10 months like Obama has. Or should I say "non-record".

[YoungVito]

Only if he had a record over the last 10 months like Obama has. Or should I say "non-record".

George W. Bush's approval rating at this point in his presidency was at 90%.

Your point???

[sideoutshu]

George W. Bush's approval rating at this point in his presidency was at 90%.

Your point???

That isn't true.

My point is that you made a ridiculous exaggeration by claiming JFK would not have been elected when he was so universally liked and Corzine is universally loathed.

[McMadden]

That isn't true.

My point is that you made a ridiculous exaggeration by claiming JFK would not have been elected when he was so universally liked and Corzine is universally loathed.

LOL at this ----------------------------/\ and thats why he got a bullet in the head. Imagine what would have happen if he was universally loved. :rolleyes:

[Gtrght77]

That isn't true.

My point is that you made a ridiculous exaggeration by claiming JFK would not have been elected when he was so universally liked and Corzine is universally loathed.

Yes it is true, this is right after the 9-11 attacks for Bush. Everyone was American instead of Dem and GOP.

[resnor]

LOL at this ----------------------------/\ and thats why he got a bullet in the head. Imagine what would have happen if he was universally loved. :rolleyes:

Wait...are you arguing that because one whackjob wanted to kill JFK, that JFK wasn't loved by pretty much everyone else in the country? Newsflash: JFK may be the most popular President since Washington. People loved JFK.

[Gtrght77]

Wait...are you arguing that because one whackjob wanted to kill JFK, that JFK wasn't loved by pretty much everyone else in the country? Newsflash: JFK may be the most popular President since Washington. People loved JFK.

I think the love for JFK has to do a lot with the fact he was assassinated. He was about to make some pretty unpopular decisions as president. I doubt it was just one man acting alone either. If he was alone there was no need for him to be killed like he was.

[YoungVito]

Uh oh. I see where this is going. I'm out gentleman.

[sideoutshu]

LOL at this ----------------------------/\ and thats why he got a bullet in the head. Imagine what would have happen if he was universally loved. :rolleyes:

Can somebody ban this guy please?

[McMadden]

Wait...are you arguing that because one whackjob wanted to kill JFK, that JFK wasn't loved by pretty much everyone else in the country? Newsflash: JFK may be the most popular President since Washington. People loved JFK.

No I am not arguing that, I being sarcastic. But I too, use to believe that JFK was very, popular when growing up until I read and saw news reports of the day. Ask if this sounds familiar? Building up troops in a war zone by the thousands, showing weakness in front of the Soviets (missiles of October), the Bay of Pigs debacle, meetings with a civil rights leader, race issues. Then look at his election and compare today.

Kennedy ________________ Nixon
49.7% ---popular vote---- 49.6%
303 --- Electoral College --291

Obama________________ McCain
52% ---popular vote---- 45.7%
365 --- Electoral College --173

Knowing what we know now today, I doubt you would say that Obama is universally more liked than Kennedy, would you? The evidence suggest otherwise. Also of note with Kennedy............


"A total of 15 electors - eight from Mississippi, six from Alabama, and one from Oklahoma - refused to vote for either Kennedy or Nixon. Instead, they cast their votes for Senator Harry Byrd, Sr. of Virginia, a conservative Democrat, even though Byrd had not been a candidate for President." I think people get confused with the assassination and the out-pouring of emotion of the time. Similar to the Micheal Jackson world wide out pouring of emotion on his death. Poor choice I know, entertainer vs politician. Or better, after 9/11, Dems/Gop, libs, neo-con, yeah, even yours truly backed Bush 100% in going to war after the terrorist in Afghanistan. But if the 24/7 cables were around in the 60's, I doubt people would have the same view of Kennedy we have today.

Oh .................

hahah if you get sideout to say this, you've really touched a nerve.Hey you trying to start sum-thin? Will somebody ban this guy please?

[resnor]

I don't think that JFK evoked the love/hate as much as Obama. I could be wrong. I would say thay when Obama was elected, he was massively popular...but that popularity has taken a hit. I'm sure that the assassination has alot to do with how we percieve Kennedy now...I'll admit that I'm not as familiar with actual numbers concerning him as I should be.

[sideoutshu]

I don't think that JFK evoked the love/hate as much as Obama. I could be wrong. I would say thay when Obama was elected, he was massively popular...but that popularity has taken a hit. I'm sure that the assassination has alot to do with how we percieve Kennedy now...I'll admit that I'm not as familiar with actual numbers concerning him as I should be.

Speaking of this..........

[YoungVito]

Look, I do realize that each side has to take what they can from it and spin it, but what both sides are failing to see is that at the end of the day...ALL OF THE INCUMBENTS LOST.

Conservatives say "Its the people sending a message to Obama", and Progressives saying "All politics are local, it means nothing".

Yet, no one's taking the time to see that its government in general the the people have a problem with. If you're an incumbent, chances are you will be voted out.

But NO...try and spin it. F*** it if it gets you votes in '10 right.

[conviction]

Look, I do realize that each side has to take what they can from it and spin it, but what both sides are failing to see is that at the end of the day...ALL OF THE INCUMBENTS LOST.

Conservatives say "Its the people sending a message to Obama", and Progressives saying "All politics are local, it means nothing".

Yet, no one's taking the time to see that its government in general the the people have a problem with. If you're an incumbent, chances are you will be voted out.

But NO...try and spin it. F*** it if it gets you votes in '10 right.

Now that's cause for celebration!!!!!!:D