Open Letter to Conservatives/Supported by facts

[Coach Stag]

Take a deep breath.

Read and research.

You're entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts. It'd be nice to have a conservative party us independents can respect again:

http://www.streetprophets.com/story/2010/3/22/175451/738

[sideoutshu]

Take a deep breath.

Read and research.

You're entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts. It'd be nice to have a conservative party us independents can respect again:

http://www.streetprophets.com/story/2010/3/22/175451/738

Wow...the hypocrisy involved with saying you no longer respect conservatives while citing the Dailykos is simply mindboggling. (or "mindbottling" if you are Gtright)

[Barack Obama]

Take a deep breath.

Read and research.

You're entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts. It'd be nice to have a conservative party us independents can respect again:

http://www.streetprophets.com/story/2010/3/22/175451/738
............
Owned

[sanantonio]

Wow...the hypocrisy involved with saying you no longer respect conservatives while citing the Dailykos is simply mindboggling. (or "mindbottling" if you are Gtright)

Facts are facts no matter where they come from. Try disputing the facts and not the source then you will (not to me) appear a little more credible.

And just to add insult to injury David Frum calls out his own party at about the two minute mark.
http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/video?id=10175695&tab=9482930&section=1206872&playlist=10174744

[sideoutshu]

Facts are facts no matter where they come from. Try disputing the facts and not the source then you will (not to me) appear a little more credible.

And just to add insult to injury David Frum calls out his own party at about the two minute mark.
http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/video?id=10175695&tab=9482930&section=1206872&playlist=10174744

I am not talking about the content at all. I am talking about the lack of common sense involved with citing the Dailykos while complaining the other side is biased and no longer credible.

[theanalogkid]

This is more of an open letter to Republicans and not even to all Republicans just specific ones, however it tries to paint them all with the same views, which is logical fail. Not all conservatives are Republican, and not all Republicans are conservative. We saw George W. Bush's big government initiatives and policies, I'd hardly call that conservatism.

As far as this letter, you can make one about specific Democratic politicians, they are hypocritical too.

[MonoxideChild]

This country could use more than the big two parties anyways. It think its a disservice to everyone when the Socialist Party, the Green Party, the Libertarian Party, etc., don't get recognized or invited to debates. That way instead of arguing with each other about every little thing, between two parties, our actual voice and intentions can be heard through many.

[sanantonio]

I am not talking about the content at all. I am talking about the lack of common sense involved with citing the Dailykos while complaining the other side is biased and no longer credible.

So your not arguing the content which is good but we all know both sides are hypocritical and talk out of both sides of thier mouths. It's just that right now the Reps are looking like sore losers which they are. :p

[sideoutshu]

So your not arguing the content which is good but we all know both sides are hypocritical and talk out of both sides of thier mouths. It's just that right now the Reps are looking like sore losers which they are. :p

Uhm, who is talking about the politicians? I am talking about Stag.

And as far as being "sore losers" I guess that would be the childish way to characterize sticking up for the 59% of Americans that didn't want this bill.:rolleyes:

[Nevada_Ballin]

Uhm, who is talking about the politicians? I am talking about Stag.

And as far as being "sore losers" I guess that would be the childish way to characterize sticking up for the 59% of Americans that didn't want this bill.:rolleyes:

When asked the question:

Would America be better off with Obama's health care bill or the way things are?" The response was 46%-46%. It's all in how you frame the question :)

When CNN asked from it's website:

"Do you understand the new health care law's effects on you?"

Not at all 42%

Somewhat 38%

Very well 21%

Total votes: 201194

My response was "somewhat". But moreover, this is saying that not many people understood what was in a bill that they were for OR against in the first place. It was a political football for GOP and Dems the entire way.


.

[resnor]

Facts are facts no matter where they come from. Try disputing the facts and not the source then you will (not to me) appear a little more credible.

And just to add insult to injury David Frum calls out his own party at about the two minute mark.
http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/video?id=10175695&tab=9482930&section=1206872&playlist=10174744

How silly of me to think it was going to be an article dealing with supposed shortcomings of conservative theory...instead it's a whole list of things showing that some Republicans are hypocrites. Yay? What's the big deal? Are Democrats not hypocrites? The one thing that the article demostrated is the need, on both sides of the aisle, to know what you believe, and stick to those beliefs come hell or high water.

[resnor]

When asked the question:

Would America be better off with Obama's health care bill or the way things are?" The response was 46%-46%. It's all in how you frame the question :)

When CNN asked from it's website:

"Do you understand the new health care law's effects on you?"

Not at all 42%

Somewhat 38%

Very well 21%

Total votes: 201194

My response was "somewhat". But moreover, this is saying that not many people understood what was in a bill that they were for OR against in the first place. It was a political football for GOP and Dems the entire way.


.

It changes nothing. Reality, a majority of Americans DIDN'T want the healthcare bill. It was evenly split between people who thought Obama's plan would be as bad as what we have currently. In other words, people understand that the current system has some problems, but they don't want to totally scrap it for Obama's plan.

[Nevada_Ballin]

It changes nothing. Reality, a majority of Americans DIDN'T want the healthcare bill. It was evenly split between people who thought Obama's plan would be as bad as what we have currently. In other words, people understand that the current system has some problems, but they don't want to totally scrap it for Obama's plan.

You mean just as many people wanted Obama's plan as did those who didn't, which is what the poll suggests. But it's still a poll regardless. Polls don't equal what's "right" because most people had no clue what is in the health bill anyway. Their opinions are living off hearsay from their favorite news media or bartender.


.

[SUPDOG]

Take a deep breath.

Read and research.

You're entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts. It'd be nice to have a conservative party us independents can respect again:

http://www.streetprophets.com/story/2010/3/22/175451/738

Op Ed's are okay now! Great news! :eek:

[resnor]

You mean just as many people wanted Obama's plan as did those who didn't, which is what the poll suggests. But it's still a poll regardless. Polls don't equal what's "right" because most people had no clue what is in the health bill anyway. Their opinions are living off hearsay from their favorite news media or bartender.


.

No...the question wasn't "Which plan do you want". The question was "Would America be better off with Obama's health care bill or the way things are?". People were split on whether or not Obama's plan would be any better than what we have, but that doesn't mean that they wanted either of the plans.

People didn't know what was in it cause it was incredibly difficult to find out...just like the bailout bills. If getting the information out there speedily and understandably would have increased public approval, don't you think the Dems would have done so? It would certainly have been in their best interest, if that were the case...

[sideoutshu]

When asked the question:

Would America be better off with Obama's health care bill or the way things are?" The response was 46%-46%. It's all in how you frame the question :)

When CNN asked from it's website:

"Do you understand the new health care law's effects on you?"

Not at all 42%

Somewhat 38%

Very well 21%

Total votes: 201194

My response was "somewhat". But moreover, this is saying that not many people understood what was in a bill that they were for OR against in the first place. It was a political football for GOP and Dems the entire way.


.

Is that an online poll? I put alot more stock in people who are actually in the pollingn business then TV stations polling their viewers (who probably all radiate toward certain demographics.

I don't know how you get more straight forward then "are you in favor of this health care bill". But here are a few:

57% believe if the plan passes, the cost of healthcare will go up;

54% believe the plan will hurt quality of care;

57% believe it will hurt the US economy;

81% believe it will cost more than projected.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/september_2009/health_care_reform

[Nevada_Ballin]

No...the question wasn't "Which plan do you want". The question was "Would America be better off with Obama's health care bill or the way things are?". People were split on whether or not Obama's plan would be any better than what we have, but that doesn't mean that they wanted either of the plans.

People didn't know what was in it cause it was incredibly difficult to find out...just like the bailout bills. If getting the information out there speedily and understandably would have increased public approval, don't you think the Dems would have done so? It would certainly have been in their best interest, if that were the case...

It wasn't difficult to find out - people were just too lazy to go look for it, this stuff has been out there for a year and every version was readily available for viewing. Even the final Senate version was posted up last Thursday, the "72 hour rule" was in effect.

I've posted links to them a couple of times during the year to previous versions that were worked on as well.

.

[Nevada_Ballin]

Is that an online poll? I put alot more stock in people who are actually in the pollingn business then TV stations polling their viewers (who probably all radiate toward certain demographics.

I don't know how you get more straight forward then "are you in favor of this health care bill". But here are a few:

57% believe if the plan passes, the cost of healthcare will go up;

54% believe the plan will hurt quality of care;

57% believe it will hurt the US economy;

81% believe it will cost more than projected.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/september_2009/health_care_reform

Yea, it's an online poll but if people are nudging the numbers in favor of the bill, it would be towards the "yes very well" answer imo, and that answer is the lowest of all choices.

But again, you know how i feel about polls. Grain of salt. The rasmussen results you have there, key word is "believe" which comes down to individual speculation. The bigger picture here is that not many people really understand what's in the bill. How would answer the CNN poll question?

.

[resnor]

It wasn't difficult to find out - people were just too lazy to go look for it, this stuff has been out there for a year and every version was readily available for viewing. Even the final Senate version was posted up last Thursday, the "72 hour rule" was in effect.

I've posted links to them a couple of times during the year to previous versions that were worked on as well.

.

Yeah, cause you're average person has the time to go through multiple 2000 page bills, full of legal jargon, to see what's in them. Yes, very easy. And everytime the bill is changed, go through it again. It's so easy that the guys who vote on them, and get paid to know what's in them can't even do it by themselves.

[Nevada_Ballin]

Yeah, cause you're average person has the time to go through multiple 2000 page bills, full of legal jargon, to see what's in them. Yes, very easy. And everytime the bill is changed, go through it again. It's so easy that the guys who vote on them, and get paid to know what's in them can't even do it by themselves.

If they cared enough, they would make the time. Seems like they cared enough to answer telephone poll questions at 10 minutes a pop. There's no reason why they can't take 10-15 minutes here and there to find out more - if they REALLY cared like they say they do.

.

[sideoutshu]

Yea, it's an online poll but if people are nudging the numbers in favor of the bill, it would be towards the "yes very well" answer imo, and that answer is the lowest of all choices.
.

It has nothing to do with skewing the numbers. If CNN.com is posting an online poll, the only people answering it are those who (1) have the internet; (2) have a computer; (3) seek their news through online media; (4) seek their news specifically through CNN; (5) are the type of people who answer online polls rather then skipping them and finding what you are looking for; are awake at the time of day when the poll is taken; etc, etc, etc. Real pollsters have methods of ensuring an accurate cross section of different demographics.

[whigsplittaz]

It changes nothing. Reality, a majority of Americans DIDN'T want the healthcare bill. It was evenly split between people who thought Obama's plan would be as bad as what we have currently. In other words, people understand that the current system has some problems, but they don't want to totally scrap it for Obama's plan.

So the health care is now totally scrapped? wow learn something new everyday. I guess I should check with my mom step dad and family members to see how they paid for her broken foot today and future dr appts in the future since they are of age to have medicare. Wow is blown back by what is now scrapped health care.:D

[Gtrght77]

Wow...the hypocrisy involved with saying you no longer respect conservatives while citing the Dailykos is simply mindboggling. (or "mindbottling" if you are Gtright)

LOL

I must have hit a sweet spot somewhere because now you can't even post without taking a swipe at me.


You lose. :p

[resnor]

So the health care is now totally scrapped? wow learn something new everyday. I guess I should check with my mom step dad and family members to see how they paid for her broken foot today and future dr appts in the future since they are of age to have medicare. Wow is blown back by what is now scrapped health care.:D

Much of this bill doesn't go into effect for four more years. Waybto miss the point.

[RicoVacilon]

Take a deep breath.

Read and research.

You're entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts.

Definitely. On Monday the stuff I heard from friends and co-workers was just crazy. Luckily I asked my parents why they didn't like it and they responded with an email with facts. It didn't change my mind but at least it wasn't full of myths.

[YoungVito]

Y'all want some cheese with that Cons?

[resnor]

If they cared enough, they would make the time. Seems like they cared enough to answer telephone poll questions at 10 minutes a pop. There's no reason why they can't take 10-15 minutes here and there to find out more - if they REALLY cared like they say they do.

.

Again...taking a 10 minute poll is much much different than spending hours gong through one 2000 page bill, let alone going through three of them. If the people voting for the bill can be informed enough on it byblistening to what other people who read it have to say, then it's good enough for the general public too. Plus, the bills were constantly being changed, so you would have to keep getting the new editions, and starting the whole process over again. That is virtually impossible for the average American to do.

[whigsplittaz]

Much of this bill doesn't go into effect for four more years. Waybto miss the point.

make the point so no point is missed. When you say scrapped out it means just that don't it? We don't put scrapped meat ina T bone do we and there is no point to miss. Maybe we do though gotta watch food inc again.

[Gtrght77]

Y'all want some cheese with that Cons?

LOL

The Party of No to the Party of WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH :p

[resnor]

make the point so no point is missed. When you say scrapped out it means just that don't it? We don't put scrapped meat ina T bone do we and there is no point to miss. Maybe we do though gotta watch food inc again.

It's pretty obvious what my point was. The healthcare bill has much of it that won't go into effect for 4 years, so basing an opinion of it on what has changed since it was signed is retarded. To act like this bill won't essentially scrap the system that we have is pretty retarded, too.

[resnor]

LOL

The Party of No to the Party of WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH :p

For eight years all I heard from Dems was whining and complaining and mocking of every thing that Bush did or said. Yet somehow they avoided getting the label that you so quickly put on the Reps? You act like the Reps should have just voted en masse for something they didn't believe in. It would be like Dems voting en masse to ban abortion.

[YoungVito]

For eight years all I heard from Dems was whining and complaining and mocking of every thing that Bush did or said. Yet somehow they avoided getting the label that you so quickly put on the Reps? You act like the Reps should have just voted en masse for something they didn't believe in. It would be like Dems voting en masse to ban abortion.

I seem to recall saying after the Scott Brown win that celebration was premature. I don't care who's doing thr crying. If you're whining...I'm calling you out. It just happens to be you guys right now.

Klenex?

[resnor]

I seem to recall saying after the Scott Brown win that celebration was premature. I don't care who's doing thr crying. If you're whining...I'm calling you out. It just happens to be you guys right now.

Klenex?

Do you mean Kleenex? If you're going to be a troll and insult, at least spell it right.

And how am I whining? All I'm doing is posting another point of view to what others post. That isn't the same as whining.

[YoungVito]

Pop Quiz: How many seats do Republicans have to have after Nov in order to repeal the Health Care LAW?

Hint: I misspoke to the subject in an earlier thread.

[MonoxideChild]

Pop Quiz: How many seats do Republicans have to have after Nov in order to repeal the Health Care LAW?

Hint: I misspoke to the subject in an earlier thread.

Hopefully all this garbage going on now will open some peoples eyes and theyll actually pay attention to what the people they vote for actually represent instead of voting because they someone is a conservative or a liberal.

[Gtrght77]

For eight years all I heard from Dems was whining and complaining and mocking of every thing that Bush did or said. Yet somehow they avoided getting the label that you so quickly put on the Reps? You act like the Reps should have just voted en masse for something they didn't believe in. It would be like Dems voting en masse to ban abortion.

It was hard not to get up in arms over the Patriot act and the Iraq war.

[resnor]

It was hard not to get up in arms over the Patriot act and the Iraq war.

Yet you remain strangely silent about Obama basically doing the same things. You complained about Bush's spending, but are cool with Obama dwarfing it.

At least me and some other conservatives on hear voiced displeasure over some of what Bush did. You simply go right along with whatever Obama does, no matter how that goes against what you carried on about durin the Bush administration.

[resnor]

Hopefully all this garbage going on now will open some peoples eyes and theyll actually pay attention to what the people they vote for actually represent instead of voting because they someone is a conservative or a liberal.

If out representatives were actually conservatives then there wouldn't be the disconnect that we currently see. Voting for a conservative means voting for someone who is what they represent. Perhaps you should have said that people should vote for what people represent, not vote for a party, i.e., Democrat or Republican.