Any 3-4 users in the house

[BigB]

There was a guy here at one time that did a nice thing on using the 3-4. I want to move on to other fronts and wanted to lab the 3-4. Is anyone here good with it and have some schemes to kick around? I like some of the zones (even tho they don't work that well.) blitzes they have.

[MelloDrama]

I use the Jets 3-4 playbook and been having some nice success with it.

I just recently converted over to it from the D balanced. Most of the scheme I do from the jets 3-4 is from 3-4 normal. They have plays in abundance in the normal. There are some sick blitzing.

Check it out.

It's got

3-4 over-under-normal
Dime normal-Dollar
Nickle normal- prowl- 3-3-5 And another weird formation I'm not yet familiar with
Quarters normal- deep

[BOOBOOSD]

I use mostly a 3-4 for my base.

Try this for starters:

Since there's no 2Man Under play with a 4 man rush by default, create it yourself.

This is how you do it. Take any DoubleZ/X/TE plays, take control of the safety that's in man coverage (or click on him pre-snap quickly so you don't tip his man coverage off) and shift the opposite safety's deep zone towards his side so he coverages his deep half rather than the deep middle. So there's your man under Cover2 if you cover your half manually with the safety your in control of. And as far as adjusting the D-line, you can either shift it left or right in the direction of the blitzing OLB or spread it out to help give that OLB a free path into the backfield. If you setup the rush like that, the offense is going to have to use an extra blocker to account for the overload rush off the edge by the OLB and that gives you a bit more freedom to defend the WRs especially. This is a far better 4 man pass rush than any 4-3 IMO. I personally like setting it up so the OLB rushes off the widest side of the field or from the side where the TE is, that way if the TE is constantly released on pass routes, that OLB has a better chance of getting in & infront of the QB's face since chances are the QB will look for the TE. Or you can sometimes man that blitzing OLB up on the TE for double/triple coverge or man him up to the SE or FL to be in position to take away slants or purple/flat/hook/deep zone him to keep it a guessing game. Pretty nice way to play vanilla yet create a bit of havoc and confusion.

Other than that, of course there's a bit more aggressive man under blitzes, but the most aggressive I usually like to go is Cover1 and plays like OLB Dogs Fire, Weak/Strong blitz are pretty nice. What I like to do sometimes with that Weak/Strong blitz is shift the LBs in the direction of the blitz so it turns into more of a 4-3 look, but then playmaker that blitzing ILB to a purple zone so he helps take away the quick slant in that direction, might want to leave the safety that's in man coverage towards that side a bit back deep to show a Cover2 look. Sometimes what I like to do also though is pick the 2Man Under play, freeze the Defense, playmaker all my Linebackers to blitz, then from there, based on what I see in the possible protection scheme of the offensive formation, I will usually then re-playmaker a couple of my Linebackers to Man or Zone and I might take control of a LB. So it might seem like 2Deep man under all around, but my LBs could be in zone/man w/ blitz, can sometimes help take away the obvious slants or quick flat hits that people do when they notice man.

I also love zone blitzing out of the 3-4, but that's a whole different ball game and a lot of the pre-snap adjustments I like to make are based on where my opponent lies inconjunction with the hash marks, downs & distance and the offensive formations. I like to mix it up a lot, but try to make my alignments look similiar so you don't know whats coming and freezing the Defense helps a lot with that IMO. Main thing I try to do is bring atleast 5 everydown and I like to do that by playmakering all my Linebackers to blitz first, them after adjust on the fly based on what I said in my first sentence of this paragraph. I personally believe that if you bring the heat first out of Zone, it helps open up the use of those vanilla zones or "F@G" all out coverage zones later on as a surprise tactic.

[MelloDrama]

I use mostly a 3-4 for my base.

Try this for starters:

Since there's no 2Man Under play with a 4 man rush by default, create it yourself.

This is how you do it. Take any DoubleZ/X/TE plays, take control of the safety that's in man coverage (or click on him pre-snap quickly so you don't tip his man coverage off) and shift the opposite safety's deep zone towards his side so he coverages his deep half rather than the deep middle. So there's your man under Cover2 if you cover your half manually with the safety your in control of. And as far as adjusting the D-line, you can either shift it, spread it to help give that OLB a free path into the backfield. If you setup the rush like that, the offense is going to have to use an extra blocker to account for the overload rush off the edge by the OLB and that gives you a bit more freedom to defend the WRs especially. This is a far better 4 man pass rush than any 4-3 IMO. I personally like setting it up so the OLB rushes off the widest side of the field or from the side where the TE is, that way if the TE is constantly released on pass routes, that OLB has a better chance of getting in & infront of the QB's face since chances are the QB will look for the TE. Or you can sometimes man that blitzing OLB up on the TE for double/triple coverge or man him up to the SE or FL to be in position to take away slants or purple/flat/hook/deep zone him to keep it a guessing game. Pretty nice way to play vanilla yet create a bit of havoc and confusion.

Other than that, of course there's a bit more aggressive man under blitzes, but the most aggressive I usually go is Cover1 and plays like OLB Dogs Fire, Weak/Strong blitz are pretty nice. Sometimes what I like to do though is pick the 2Man Under play, freeze the Defense, playmaker all my Linebackers to blitz, then from there, based on what I see in the possible protection scheme of the offensive formation, I will usually then re-playmaker a couple of my Linebackers to Man or Zone and I might take control of a LB. So it might seem like 2Deep man under, but my LBs could be in zone/man w/ blitz, can sometimes help take away the obvious slants or quick flat hits that people do when they notice man.


Good stuff bro. Very insightful!;)

Now thats what you call using your noodle.

[BOOBOOSD]

Good stuff bro. Very insightful!;)

Now thats what you call using your noodle.


Thanks man, re-read it. I added a bit more. :p



All you other 3-4 users better chime in also! I know your out there. Gotta bust out them strategies though.

[Sully]

I'm a big fan of the 3-4 with my 49ers,even though we don't really run it in real life due to injuries.


Heres some more techniques.

Try crashing the line to open the gap for the blitzters,it doesn't give away what you are doing as much and is still very effective.

Blitz different linebackers all the time,thats the advantage of it,its really tough to tell where the 4th(or 5th :) ) rusher is coming from.


Things like having the DEs into coverage and the OLBs blitzing can really throw off your opponent,or corners blitzing and the OLBs covering their area.Things like that.

Having trouble with the TEs? try calling one of those Double TE plays and manually bump the TE so the timing will get thrown off and then he will be in blanket coverage between the OLB and TE.

Theres a ton more,if you have any specific questions feel free to ask.

[ahr19]

BoobooSD ... that was some good stuff. You too Sully. I just recently converted to the 3-4 in my franchise leagues after my drafts left with the perfect personnel to run a 3-4. I think it is more fun to play and bring people from all different locations ... also, after playing against people who had me confused with where all the blitzes are coming from. Plus, if someone is killing you through the air ... you can use the linebackers in zone much better than defensive lineman.

But like sully said, bring someone (or two) every down. From different directions, LB's, CB's ... even sneak your safety down there and on PA passes, they can get in there and wreak some havoc. Blitzing the OLB and dropping the DE into coverage is nice ... just switch it up all the time. A great chess game that is fun ... I just need to work on some good zones for when teams spread the field with 3,4 and 5 WR's ... any help with that. I am also converting to the 3-4 PB from the Balanced D PB ... I think I am going to run 3-4 with whatever team I have. Just sub in the strong DT's as DE's if that is the case ...

You should get Feardaram to comment. He has shown me alot and is still learning himself.

And I am willing to share the little I know.

[Virtruvious]

I run a 3-4 with San Diego. This is not so much a 3-4 write-up but more how to use the 3-4 to create a turnover or a 3 and out.

My latest strategy is to win 1st and 2nd downs and force a pass on 3rd and long. I control the FS and I usually call a coverage play (mostly cover 2) out of the 3-4 solid formation for 1st downs. Playmaker an OLB to blitz to create the 4 man front (different everytime) I have found that the solid formation is better against the run and usually stops the run for a minimal gain.

If I can get 2nd and 7 or longer, most people go pass thinking that their run for 3 yards was unsuccessful. Then I call a play out of the 3-4 normal. I like the zone plays, so I will go cover 3 or cover 2 man. Again playmaker a LB to blitz (different everytime) and watch the underneath stuff. Sometimes I playmaker more than 1 LB if I think they will run again.

If I can get 3rd and 6 or 3rd and 7 I switch to a 3-3-5 cover 3. This play tends to work well with 2 purple zones and 3 guys in deep coverage. If they throw underneath again, chances are they won't make the 1st down and it's 3 and out. I'll playmaker the LOLB to blitz (for me it's merriman) and he gets great pressure. This is because the DE engages the OT and the LB runs around the corner totally unblocked. The offense has to make a play because it's 3rd and long, so the QB is forced to throw it early. This leads to int's or incomplete passes most of the time. The key to this play is that I can get tons of pressure with a 4 man rush. That means I have 7 guys in coverage.

The other way is get up early. If I am up 14-0 most guys tend to abandon the run and only pass. (mostly deep passes) At this point in the game I'll run 3 deep man out of the 3-3-5.

[Bearfanmike20]

Here B...

http://www.vgsportsinc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56716

This was my 06 stuff.. most of it carries over.. just eliminate the bumps.. or use them sparingly.. the heat is about the same.. in some cases better.

Happy gaming..

Mike

[vicious2500]

I love the 3-4 defense and usually start a thread on it every year. I run a lot of 3-4 normal plays, because it has the most plays and the best zone blitzing plays. Line shifts and stunts work more this year. I've changed my philosophy on running the 3-4 recently, but the scheme itself is the same from past years.

I like running a lot of 2 modified man under schemes to stop the run. Seems they get to the ball better doing so, 2 man under might be the best D this year. As others have said there is no default 2 man under 4 man rush, but you can create it like booboo. Or you can run 2 man under/man QB spy and blitz the spying/zoning WILB. This generates a 4 man pass rush and still provides excellent man coverage across the field.

Another good play is FS Blitz, you can turn this play into a 3 man under play with a few quick playmakers. You have the freedom of playmakering the FS to cover the SE, leave him on the blitz, put him into a deep zone and make it cover 4 man under, hook zone him, flat zone him. The SILB has the same options he's on a blitz by default.

My favorite zone blitz would have to be crash man. It sends the RCB on a blitz with the rest of the secondary dropping into a 3 deep zone. The MLBs are blitzing as well as the DT and LE drop into coverage. You can turn this into a balanced zone blitz by stunting the enter D-line down and playmakering one of the blitzing MLB to hook zone to cover the middle of the field. Which essestinally covers the entire field. The flats are open, but the deep flats are covered.

The best way to zone blitz though is to modify the base cover 2, cover 3 and drop zone plays though to your liking. Playing zone mostly has to do with opponents tendecies like booboo said.

My favorite man blitzes are strong blitz and the OLB blitz (torpedos) it gets a different name depending on the playbook. These two plays are not only good pass blitzes, but run blitzes as well. Some more run stuffing man blitzes are Stud & pinch, but their both cover 0 type blitzes so if they get past the front line their liable to break a big one.

[feardaram]

here is what i wrote up not too long ago: http://www.vgsportsinc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59801&highlight=info

its fairly basic, in so far as that i dont have any exotic blitz setups that allow a LB to squeeze through a hole and sack the QB in 1 second. the good thing about what i do is that my D looks the same everytime, so its hard to get a read on what i am trying to do. i think zones work really well this year, you just have to watch the deep ball. im starting to move my CBs back alot now (in man or zone), by using the WR icon + up. this protects the deep ball better, and shouldnt hurt you much if your underneath coverage and/or heat is solid. having the CB play a flat zone, then backing him up, and cause alot of picks because people think no one is playing the flats cuz no LBs run over there.

[wtomasino]

I use the 3-4 exclusively.


What do you need?

I basically run just a few base plays. I use 3-4 under alot in run situation, and anything where the offense comes out in 2 WR sets, or 2 TE.

I like to use the Nickel 2-4-5 When its pass and they use 3-4 WR sets.


There are a few things I do, what do you wanna know in particular?

[KingofKingsJW]

For years Ive used the 4-3 this year however Ive been trying out the 3-4 and 46 cuz I want a new D. When I play D Im very aggressive with my blitz. I blitz from every position from time to time. I dont use the Nickel too much. If I need that extra DB I use the dime and have a extra DB I can blitz and still have an extra DB for coverage. I like speed on my defense as well.

[Mr. Faulkner]

I love the 3-4, Jeremiah Trotter loves it too.

[Dazed N Confuse]

I use the 3-4 exclusively.


What do you need?

I basically run just a few base plays. I use 3-4 under alot in run situation, and anything where the offense comes out in 2 WR sets, or 2 TE.

I like to use the Nickel 2-4-5 When its pass and they use 3-4 WR sets.


There are a few things I do, what do you wanna know in particular?

I love the Nickle 2-4-5. Almost any play out of gets heat on the QB. Just spread and loop your line. Control a D lineman and make sure he gets block. The two OLB come in free almost everytime.

[BOOBOOSD]

I like running a lot of 2 modified man under schemes to stop the run. Seems they get to the ball better doing so, 2 man under might be the best D this year. As others have said there is no default 2 man under 4 man rush, but you can create it like booboo. Or you can run 2 man under/man QB spy and blitz the spying/zoning WILB. This generates a 4 man pass rush and still provides excellent man coverage across the field.

Other than playmakering that WILB to blitz, Try this also with that 2Man Under QB Spy Play to mix things up a bit:

-Playmaker that QB Spy WILB to a purple zone and now he's in position to take away slants to the SE reciever or man him up to the SE, but leave him in his default spot if you man him up so you don't tip the man coverage and that way he remains with inside positioning on the SE reciever. Also playmaker him to man up on the TE that's on the right side of the screen and now he's in position to take away Post routes over the middle to the TE, again leave him in his default position or playmaker him to a deep zone.

-Flip the play so the QB Spy is with the SILB, then playmaker him to a Purple zone and know he's in position to guard corner routes to the TE.

Just some ideas for creating some solid coverage.

[Titans 4 LIFE]

I set up my 3-3-5 and 2-4-5 like the 3-4. Generally against a 2 WR 2RB set with the 335 I come out in a 2 man under, pinch and crash the line to the middle, pinch the LBs, blitz the MLB and stack him on the NT, put my 3rd CB in a blitz and move him inside to a LB postion, and control a safety 5 yards back from the LOS. Gets good heat and leaves everyone exept the FB covered in man with 2 safeties deep.
When I just use the regular 3-4 sets I have 2 blitzes that I use alot.
1st is the Wide Blitz, I move the LB thats in a buzz zone to the outside to line up as the #2 CB, I bring the blitzing CB in beside the DE, I pinch the LBs and stack them.
2nd is trio sky zone, I move the line to the right and the LBs to the left, I move the safety covering the deep middle down in between the LBs and PM him to blitz, and manually cover the deep middle with my LB. flats are wide open but its still good heat.

[daone]

i recently posted a "running the 3-4 thread" no idea where it went...lol... that should help though

[damonstrous]

I'm seeing all kinds of great technical tips on 3-4, but no mention of stragetical difference. W/a 4-man line their primary assignment is the pass. A 3 man line primarily focuses on the run. Some teams are set up as if they use 3 DT, some are like 2 Dt + 1 De. Trying to use your d-line for a pass rush will leave big holes for the RB.
I'm seeing mention of 2-4-5 as a pass rush D, it is excellent for cases when you think your opponnent is trying to spread the D to run. Not many PB have it this year. Don't like 1-5-5.

[GMONEY]

You guys are true 3-4 wizards. One blitz I like that I did not see mentioned is the 3-4 (solid) wide blitz out of the Balanced D book. It has the right CB blitzing and a nice zone blitz from the lb's and dl's. Great changeup look, although I would pb the blitzing cb into a zone after one blitz.

[Dazed N Confuse]

I'm having a ton of trouble containing the outside run. I'm getting ripped for 4-8 yards a pop!! Any tips?

[JediTank]

manually control a safety and/or a linebacker to pursue

[wazaflo]

There's lots of great schemes for blitzing and coverages, but what about the run? How do you guys stop the run?

[JTMoney]

There's lots of great schemes for blitzing and coverages, but what about the run? How do you guys stop the run?

I run the 3-4 exclusively now and to stop the run I shift my D-line or LB's towards the strength(it's up to you to decide) and stack the LB's behind the D-lineman or sometimes I bring my 2 ILB's down into the A or B gaps depending on how my D-line is aligned, this helps to clog up the middle and usually one of my ILB's or my DT get penetration, this technique also works well against plays were the guards pull(counters, sweeps, and tosses) b/c the ILBS are able to shoot the gaps in the line left by the pulling O-lineman b/c they are already aligned in the gaps instead of back off the ball...

[wtomasino]

I'm having a ton of trouble containing the outside run. I'm getting ripped for 4-8 yards a pop!! Any tips?

A play to stop the run that works pretty well as a base is 3-4 Under Man- Qb spy( I forget the actual name, but it's man with 2 safties back, and the MILB is in spy). I adjust the De's and Lb's differently depending on what the O comes out in and where they have thier Te's etc etc. You have to play with it a bit but it works. I prefer to pinch the LBs, either fan oput the DE's or have the crash the middle, you have to get a feel for what the opponent is doing and what your guys are capable of covering. I use Wash and they all tackle decent so this works for me.



To stop short yardage if Im not near a goalline I use 3-4 Under Cover -2 man. I pinch the line and crash them middle, I pinch the lb's you can spy 2 of them, or put the 2 outside to a spy blitz (the black arrows) to contain any attempt to get the outside, also put the CB's a touch inside thier men and possible place the safties where you feel they are needed.

Nothing works 100% but these work enough that I use them more then not.

[BOOBOOSD]

You guys are true 3-4 wizards. One blitz I like that I did not see mentioned is the 3-4 (solid) wide blitz out of the Balanced D book. It has the right CB blitzing and a nice zone blitz from the lb's and dl's. Great changeup look, although I would pb the blitzing cb into a zone after one blitz.


OH yeah, Wide Blitz and Crash Blitz, I definitely throw those in there. :) I like to enhance both of those though the majority of the time. Great vs. the PA happy dudes or containing QB rollouts. What I mean by enhancing them is that I usually playmaker the D-line to loop rush so it negates their zone blitz dropbacks and then after I might re-playmaker the Linbackers around to zone or blitz. I just personally prefer for the D-line to rush all three so they help tie up blocks for giving my blitzing LBs or blitzing CB to get in easier. Sometimes I do run these plays with their default setups, but I feel that's better to do vs. people that throw super quick or spread sets, that way those D-linemen can dropback into those quick/short passing lanes. Sometimes I even manually move my blitzing CB up close to the box near the outside of the DE/TE so the rush is super quick.

[dwmoss]

questions...

1. in one of feardarams 3-4 write ups, he discusses spreading and looping the D line, and pinching the LB's to help hide them behind the D line.

When i try to do this it seems that I get eaten up on the inside runs. Maybe i haven't given it enough chance, but I haven't liked what I've seen with this setup. I find myself running more of the 3-4 over without shift to contain more runs, anyone else??

2. I like BOOBOOSD's scheme with modifying the 3-4 double x/y/z plays to get a 4 man rush and playing as the safety the you pm into a deep zone. One question though, how do you not tip off where the 4th man is rushing from? Can't you tell where the 4th rusher is coming from by which safety you play as??

dm

[feardaram]

questions...

1. in one of feardarams 3-4 write ups, he discusses spreading and looping the D line, and pinching the LB's to help hide them behind the D line.

When i try to do this it seems that I get eaten up on the inside runs. Maybe i haven't given it enough chance, but I haven't liked what I've seen with this setup. I find myself running more of the 3-4 over without shift to contain more runs, anyone else??

2. I like BOOBOOSD's scheme with modifying the 3-4 double x/y/z plays to get a 4 man rush and playing as the safety the you pm into a deep zone. One question though, how do you not tip off where the 4th man is rushing from? Can't you tell where the 4th rusher is coming from by which safety you play as??

dm
1. inside runs are probably the hardest thing for the 3-4 to stop, regardless of alignment. there are possibly better alignments out there than mine for playing defense strictly against dives, but to me its not worth it to change, since i never know what is coming. i find my setup to be the best overall for defending everything. for me, the best way to stop a dive is to get up in there with the saftey and make the tackle. if the dives get repetitive, watch exactly how the QB drops back and hands it off. whenever you see that run, use the run playmaker. just be careful to only do it when you see that exact footwork/hand off.

2. first, most people dont really understand what you are doing anyway. unless they play the 3-4 and do what you do, it wont tell them anything. #2, i routinely mix it up by leaving the saftey who is doubling the WR alone, and then control the saftey in the deep zone on the otherside (make sure to freeze the d, or move the other saftey over a step, so he doesnt run overtop the WR he is doubling). this way, if they do know what i like to do, they will be wrong about which side the pressure is coming from.

and that right there is the key to the 3-4 (or any D really). mix things up. make your opponent thing 1 thing is coming, set up your D to show that 1 thing, then do something else.

[ahr19]

2. first, most people dont really understand what you are doing anyway. unless they play the 3-4 and do what you do, it wont tell them anything. #2, i routinely mix it up by leaving the saftey who is doubling the WR alone, and then control the saftey in the deep zone on the otherside (make sure to freeze the d, or move the other saftey over a step, so he doesnt run overtop the WR he is doubling). this way, if they do know what i like to do, they will be wrong about which side the pressure is coming from.

and that right there is the key to the 3-4 (or any D really). mix things up. make your opponent thing 1 thing is coming, set up your D to show that 1 thing, then do something else.

This is very important. Case in point. Last night I was playing a league game and this guy was killing my 3-4 all game with his RB's staying in to block and audibling for pass coverage. I couldn't buy a sack the whole game. He came back on me and was driving for the winning score. I had mixed it up all game. I would play the 3-4, cover 2 and blitz the LB's on the edge to get quick pressure and force a quick throw. However, this time I didn't blitz anyone ... he still rushed his read and threw the ball right to my CB in the flat zone. 92 yard INT for a TD with like 1:55 left so I go up 7 ...

My point is that because I mixed up my coverages all game, I was able to get this INT because he was totally expecting major heat ...

[tmazing02]

Nice info. Just out of curiosity what pb do you guys prefer for the 3-4. I use PIT but the NYJ pb looks good too.

[feardaram]

Nice info. Just out of curiosity what pb do you guys prefer for the 3-4. I use PIT but the NYJ pb looks good too.
i prefer the 3-4 book because it has 3-4, 1-1-5s, 2-4-5, and 3-2-6. all of those formations do the best they can to get as many LBs on the field as possible, and all can get some heat. in both of my leagues i have teams that have a bunch of solid LBs, and little DE skill, so i need to do what i can to get them on the field.

[BOOBOOSD]

questions...

1. in one of feardarams 3-4 write ups, he discusses spreading and looping the D line, and pinching the LB's to help hide them behind the D line.

When i try to do this it seems that I get eaten up on the inside runs. Maybe i haven't given it enough chance, but I haven't liked what I've seen with this setup. I find myself running more of the 3-4 over without shift to contain more runs, anyone else??

2. I like BOOBOOSD's scheme with modifying the 3-4 double x/y/z plays to get a 4 man rush and playing as the safety the you pm into a deep zone. One question though, how do you not tip off where the 4th man is rushing from? Can't you tell where the 4th rusher is coming from by which safety you play as??

dm


1. I prefer to do that with the 3-4-Normal-OLB Dogs Fire play or with the "Normal" in general. Sometimes just Pinching the Linebackers in helps. I feel it's better to use more Over/Under/Solid to help stop the inside run. I actually use more Over/Under/Solid vs. 1-2WR sets because they seem to do a solid enough job vs. the run because of how the D-linemen line up, and I use the Normal when I setup more zone blitzes vs. 3+WR spreadier sets especially. I say keep on blitzing hard, it helps a lot to stop the run when using the 3-4.

2. You can hide that 4th rusher by not using the Coverage audible shift (Triangle + Right). Once you use the coverage audible shift, your going to tip off that either that 1 OLB is blitzing or playing zone because that OLB won't move when you do the coverage audible shift. So if you do use the coverage audible shift, you might want to sometimes playmaker that blitzing OLB to zone or man coverage, to keep your opponent guessing whether he will blitz or not, but if you man him up on someone to create double coverage, don't allow him to move, keep him in his natural position so you don't tip it off. I personally don't care though if my opponent knows which OLB is blitzing, because it's just like using a basic 4-3 - 2 ManUnder defense, the offense knows that the 4Downlinemen are rushing, so it's kind of the same concept, but IMO it's better out of the 3-4 because the heat by that blitzing OLB can be setup better by overloading the O-line by spreading or shifting the D-line & using D-line crashes in the direction of the blitzing OLB. That's pretty much how I setup this play the majority of the time because I want that OLB to get in vs. the pass, regardless if it hinders my run defense a bit and I want to force my opponent to use extra blocker(s) so it's less recievers to have to defend, such as a troublesome TE or HB/FB attacking the flats. And no you can't really tell where that 4th rusher is coming from by looking at which safety you control, reason being is because if you control that safety in man coverage, he's just an extra roam style defender since he's in double coverage same with the other safety in deep zone, he's just being used to double up someone or defend the deep/short/middle zone or whatever you want to do with him because he's not manned up 1 on 1 with anyone. So the only way to tip that 4th rusher off is by using the Coverage audible shift because everyone else will slide into "better" man coverage defending position, other than that one blitzing OLB which stays put because he's blitzing. BTW, I actually prefer to play as the safety that's in man coverage, or I'll click on him and move him a bit pre-snap so he doesn't slide over to double off the receiver, then I'll go use the opposite safety in deep zone. Remember, if you play as the safety in man coverage, shift the opposite safety's deep zone all the other way, to create a 2Deep style of play or if you roam lower or manual blitz with that safety that's in man coverage, you just leave that deep zone safety playing the deep middle.

[dwmoss]

feardaram and booboosd,

thanks for responding to my questions.

1. I think I just need more time to look into / experiment more with the line shifting and crashing. (looking for the qb dive handoff animation is an interesting thought, I can see myself getting burnt, but I will try to keep my eye on it)

2. As far as which safety I use tipping off the 4th rusher, I think as long as I'm not getting into a pattern it shouldn't be a problem. Booboo, I will almost always freeze the D so the safety moving over to cover his double pre snap is not an issue.

My main concern were/are keeping the element of surprise there against good competition, and not getting burnt deep over top of the safety that I've playmakered into the deep zone.

3. I think I need to be more aggressive with my D playcalling. I find myself using a bend and don't break D (not getting beat deep) until the red zone where I will change up the playcalling. While this can be good if you can get the INT or hold them to a FG, I think I need to get better at bringing the heat, and using it more creatively.

4. As far as the playbook, i've switched from my default PIT 3-4 to the standard 3-4 playbook. This was to give me the 1-5-5 and 1-5-5 prowl formations. Stilling playing with them, but I haven't found much if any that was in the PIT book and not the standard 3-4 book.

thanks again, go 3-4!!

dm
:D

[BOOBOOSD]

feardaram and booboosd,

thanks for responding to my questions.


2. As far as which safety I use tipping off the 4th rusher, I think as long as I'm not getting into a pattern it shouldn't be a problem. Booboo, I will almost always freeze the D so the safety moving over to cover his double pre snap is not an issue.

thanks again, go 3-4!!

dm
:D

Your welcome. Yeah, you can also freeze the Defense like you said. I always freeze the defense when I use Zone coverage especially. However, with man coverage, I personally don't freeze as much because you can run into problems when the offense uses motion and compression sets, there could either be some very big mis-matches like a speedy WR vs. a slower LB or your defender could be out of position to defend certain types of routes. I do however sometimes freeze while in man under coverage if I'm in Nickel, Dime or Quarter because those DBs in the slots are usually in adequate position to still guard against motion or compression sets. I mean lets say your in a 3-4-2Deep man under, you freeze the defense, the offense comes out in I-Form-Normal, they then motion their FL reciever to the left to create a I-Form-TwinWR set, that then leaves your ROLB maned up to the FL who is now in the slotWr spot. That's a mis-match in speed and if you don't unfreeze to get that ROLB in a better position or coverage audible so the #1CB comes over, that FL is going to have the outside position with corner routes, flat routes, fade routes and have the speed advantage to get deep vs. that OLB on streaks/fades/Corner routes. So your basically forced to help cover with the safety over top. That's why I think it can be a bit risky to do it out of the 3-4 especially or any base type D with 2CBs. On the other hand, like I said, with Nickel, Dime,... you atleast got that Nickelback or Dimeback out there and he'll have good positioning on any SlotWR and of course there's not as much of a speed mis-match as compared to a LB vs. a WR.

[dwmoss]

However, with man coverage, I personally don't freeze as much because you can run into problems when the offense uses motion and compression sets, there could either be some very big mis-matches

Agreed on twins and compressed sets forcing me out of freezing the D because of the mismatches.

I will though give it a shot until I see the opponent can/will take advantage, as long as I have safety help over top.

In some cases against compressed tight sets, I like having the CB's out wide to prevent the outside runs/quick flat passing etc...

dm

[ahr19]

BTW, I actually prefer to play as the safety that's in man coverage, or I'll click on him and move him a bit pre-snap so he doesn't slide over to double off the receiver, then I'll go use the opposite safety in deep zone. Remember, if you play as the safety in man coverage, shift the opposite safety's deep zone all the other way, to create a 2Deep style of play or if you roam lower or manual blitz with that safety that's in man coverage, you just leave that deep zone safety playing the deep middle.

Can you explain to me what you mean by shifting the opposite safety's deep zone all the other way. Do you mean doing triangle and either right or left so that you can roam with the other safe who is doubled up on the WR?

[dwmoss]

Can you explain to me what you mean by shifting the opposite safety's deep zone all the other way. Do you mean doing triangle and either right or left so that you can roam with the other safe who is doubled up on the WR?

The double x type plays are originally a cover one with the other saftey deep in the center of the field. So if you going to play as the manned up (doubling) safety and want 2 deep safety's back you need to playmaker his deep zone from the center of the field to the outside away from your safety. Your manually controlled safety you want to cover the other deep zone.

If you want to roam (play a shorter zone, man cover, flat zone, blitz, etc.) with the user controlled safety then I believe BOOBOOSD is recommending not to move the other safety's deep zone, keep it in the middle (cover1) of the field.

dm

[feardaram]

Can you explain to me what you mean by shifting the opposite safety's deep zone all the other way. Do you mean doing triangle and either right or left so that you can roam with the other safe who is doubled up on the WR?
right. say on the play the FS (the saftey on the left of your screen) is the one in the deep zone, and your SS is on the right of your screen manned up. i would shift the FSs zone to the left, to make sure he plays his side as good as possible. i dont need him to cover the middle, i need him to watch for a streaking WR down his sideline. shifting the coverage over does that. in this case, it would be triangle + left on the R analog stick.

[BOOBOOSD]

The double x type plays are originally a cover one with the other saftey deep in the center of the field. So if you going to play as the manned up (doubling) safety and want 2 deep safety's back you need to playmaker his deep zone from the center of the field to the outside away from your safety. Your manually controlled safety you want to cover the other deep zone.

If you want to roam (play a shorter zone, man cover, flat zone, blitz, etc.) with the user controlled safety then I believe BOOBOOSD is recommending not to move the other safety's deep zone, keep it in the middle (cover1) of the field.

dm


Exactly! ;)


All those 3-4-DoubleZ/X/DoubleTE plays are Cover1 by default, with either the FS or SS taking the deep middle zone of the field, that's Cover1 and the opposite safety is in man coverage doubling up on a reciever. So inorder to negate that Cover1, what I do is shift that safety's deep zone all the way towards his side so he takes his deep half of the field and I manually play the opposite deep half with the other safety that's in man coverage. That's just the way I turn those 3 plays into a Cover2 man under play. But if you want to manually roam lower in the box with the Safety like a Linebacker Troy Polamalu style to help stop the run, manual blitz or get in the passing lanes of short to midrange passes, then it's best to leave that other safety playing the deep middle. Pretty cool way to mix it up because initially you can show a 2Deep look, but then at the last second drop down with that safety for manual blitzing, stopping the run or jump a route for an INT. That's just the way I like to utilize these plays sometimes when I control the SS especially. Sometimes I do like to control the safety that's in deep zone, but if I do that, I make sure the opposite safety that's in man coverage doesn't slide over to double up his reciever because it will tip off the coverage and to do this I take quick control of that safety pre-snap and move him a tad bit.

[JTsteez]

I stay in the 3-4 all game if I can pull it off.
Mostly cause I hate running man coverage and the plethora
of zones and zone blitzes you can run are ridiculous.

My favorite thing to do with any 3-4 play is set up
a qb trap type scheme. I'll blitz either one of the OLB's
and shift/crash my line towards him. Then put the DE
opposite your blitzing LB in a contain assignment.

The overload should push the qb to the "containing" DE.

[BOOBOOSD]

I stay in the 3-4 all game if I can pull it off.
Mostly cause I hate running man coverage and the plethora
of zones and zone blitzes you can run are ridiculous.

My favorite thing to do with any 3-4 play is set up
a qb trap type scheme. I'll blitz either one of the OLB's
and shift/crash my line towards him. Then put the DE
opposite your blitzing LB in a contain assignment.

The overload should push the qb to the "containing" DE.


Yeah that's good and that's still only a 4 man rush. ;) That's why I love the 3-4 so much, it's so d@mn flexible and it's easy to setup heat/containment with overloads.

When I setup a 4 man rush like that, I personally prefer to blitz that OLB off the widest side of the field. Reason being is because most people will roll out and look to throw towards the widest side of the field because there's more room to work with. Therefore if the QB rolls out too much or doesn't setup protection, he might roll right into the blitzing OLB. Main thing I try to do is to either force him to setup extra protection or roll out/look to the opposite side where there's less room to work in passes.

Those are just some things that I like so much better than a 4-3. It's so much harder to get that kind of outside rush angle with a DE from the 4-3, so it can be tough to contain.

It's all about angles and that's the beauty of the 3-4 OLBs because they start their rush angles from the far outside-in like a blitzing Nickelback or Dimeback putting the tackles in very awkward positions to block them, especially if their very speedy rushers. Not to mention you got those big 3 Downlinemen that can help tie up blocks, further more helping freeup those OLBs on blitzes.

A 4 man rush from the 3-4 if setup to overload can pretty much seem like a 5 man rush from the 4-3.

[ahr19]

I stay in the 3-4 all game if I can pull it off.
Mostly cause I hate running man coverage and the plethora
of zones and zone blitzes you can run are ridiculous.

My favorite thing to do with any 3-4 play is set up
a qb trap type scheme. I'll blitz either one of the OLB's
and shift/crash my line towards him. Then put the DE
opposite your blitzing LB in a contain assignment.

The overload should push the qb to the "containing" DE.

This is a nice little tip. Plus the DE you can playmaker to a QB Spy or the QB Contain Blitz ... or drop him back in coverage and have him go for the INT. Good tip. Also, I am working on using zones for the whole game ... it just makes it a little harder for the offense if they can't depend on man for one of our 3 downs. And since the defenders play zone so much better this game, it helps.



Yeah that's good and that's still only a 4 man rush. ;) That's why I love the 3-4 so much, it's so d@mn flexible and it's easy to setup heat/containment with overloads.

When I setup a 4 man rush like that, I personally prefer to blitz that OLB off the widest side of the field. Reason being is because most people will roll out and look to throw towards the widest side of the field because there's more room to work with. Therefore if the QB rolls out too much or doesn't setup protection, he might roll right into the blitzing OLB. Main thing I try to do is to either force him to setup extra protection or roll out/look to the opposite side where there's less room to work in passes.

Those are just some things that I like so much better than a 4-3. It's so much harder to get that kind of outside rush angle with a DE from the 4-3, so it can be tough to contain.

It's all about angles and that's the beauty of the 3-4 OLBs because they start their rush angles from the far outside-in like a blitzing Nickelback or Dimeback putting the tackles in very awkward positions to block them, especially if their very speedy rushers. Not to mention you got those big 3 Downlinemen that can help tie up blocks, further more helping freeup those OLBs on blitzes.

A 4 man rush from the 3-4 if setup to overload can pretty much seem like a 5 man rush from the 4-3.

That tip about the blitz coming from the wide side of the field is a nice kernal of wisdom. I am going to have to look at that ... shorten the field and force the Offenses' hand ...

So ... fellas ... take a team like the Redskins in Madden. They are not a "typical" 3-4 team but I play with them alot and I want to use them in the 3-4 ... they have some good LB's (Washington, Marshall, McIntosh and now Posey) ... how would you set them up to do the 3-4??

[wtomasino]

This is a nice little tip. Plus the DE you can playmaker to a QB Spy or the QB Contain Blitz ... or drop him back in coverage and have him go for the INT. Good tip. Also, I am working on using zones for the whole game ... it just makes it a little harder for the offense if they can't depend on man for one of our 3 downs. And since the defenders play zone so much better this game, it helps.




That tip about the blitz coming from the wide side of the field is a nice kernal of wisdom. I am going to have to look at that ... shorten the field and force the Offenses' hand ...

So ... fellas ... take a team like the Redskins in Madden. They are not a "typical" 3-4 team but I play with them alot and I want to use them in the 3-4 ... they have some good LB's (Washington, Marshall, McIntosh and now Posey) ... how would you set them up to do the 3-4??

I use the Redskins and they work good for me. I use McIntosh, Rocky as my 2nd MLB, I control him alot so it works for me, he has speed and decent tackle. I keep all other Lbs at default positions, and in regards to the slower LB on the right side... well his awareness and fact that he bites less on Pa than McIntosh allows him to keep his starting spot.

The only other sub I make is in the Nickel 2-4-5 I sub Daniels in at 2nd DT, I use this formation alot in obvious passing downs, the pressure from even Cover 2 man is sweet.

[vicious2500]

OH yeah, Wide Blitz and Crash Blitz, I definitely throw those in there. :) I like to enhance both of those though the majority of the time. Great vs. the PA happy dudes or containing QB rollouts. What I mean by enhancing them is that I usually playmaker the D-line to loop rush so it negates their zone blitz dropbacks and then after I might re-playmaker the Linbackers around to zone or blitz. I just personally prefer for the D-line to rush all three so they help tie up blocks for giving my blitzing LBs or blitzing CB to get in easier. Sometimes I do run these plays with their default setups, but I feel that's better to do vs. people that throw super quick or spread sets, that way those D-linemen can dropback into those quick/short passing lanes. Sometimes I even manually move my blitzing CB up close to the box near the outside of the DE/TE so the rush is super quick.

I recently took the 3-4 normal crash blitz out of my audibles and put in the 3-4 normal weak roll/weak roll 3 into my audibles. Its more flexible than the crash/wide blitz because the WOLB is already blitzing to the inside of the RE. You can also playmaker the ROLB into flatz coverage and blitz one of the hook zoning MLBs.

Also the CB that would normally be blitzing is in a flat zone by default so you can just playmaker him once and you have buzz flat coverage for the quick pass or you can have him come on the blitz at your will.

I really like the play and I find myself using it more often than I used crash blitz because of its flexible.

[cew6225]

I been coverting over to the 3-4 D for about 6 months now and it's the best way so far that I've found at containing some of the runs out there.Some of the things you guys talked about already sounds to me like a great way to help me start confusing my oppents better and I'm looking forward to implimenting them into my game plan here in the near future.Here are 3 or 4 of the ones I like to use and maybe you guys can help to make them better.1ST is the Pinch and what I do is shift the line to the right pm them down then pinch the line and shift my lb's to the right.Next I bring the rilb up inside the rde and ethier manually control him over the middle or rush him in if I think it's a need at the time.Sometimes I put the olbs in man to help take away the flats or te.2ND one is the weak blitz and all I do is shift the line left and crash it outside and call B-N-R if I think it's a need too.3rd is the strong blitz but I don't use this one much but if I do I will flip this play depending on what I see has been happening on the field.4th is the drop zone and all I do with this one is shift my line right and control the lilb and bring him down over the lde.Once the ball is snapped I'll drop him back a step and then manually rush him thru the a gap between the c and rg.9 times out of 10 I can get him in untouched.Well any improvements to these would be help and thanks for your tips as well gentlemen.

[spikeman]

Great Thread on 3-4. Really learning alot. I don't understand the term "freezing the D." What is it? How do you do it?

Cheers,

Spikeman

[Longview Lobos]

Where can I find a list of all the 3-4 teams?

Because I play w/ 16 teams and I cant play w/ 3-4 w/ all of my teams, online wont allow it I think. You have to play w/ the defense they use in real life right?


I think I have a short list of 3-4 teams:
HOU
Pitt
Dallas?
Carolina?


Thanks~~~~

[vicious2500]

Where can I find a list of all the 3-4 teams?

Because I play w/ 16 teams and I cant play w/ 3-4 w/ all of my teams, online wont allow it I think. You have to play w/ the defense they use in real life right?


I think I have a short list of 3-4 teams:
HOU
Pitt
Dallas?
Carolina?


Thanks~~~~

You can play a 3-4 defense with any team you want to, but you'll have to change your defensive playbook to one that contains the formation. Miami, Baltimore, NE, SD, Pitts, Dallas, Cleveland, 3-4, balance D, QB Contain & Cover 2 all have 3-4 formations in them.

If you want all of the 3-4 fronts then the NE,SD, Pitts and 3-4 PBs are the books you'll want to look at. If you want all of the 3-4 plays you'll want to run NE, SD or Pitts book. The 3-4 has the most variety of all the playbooks though because it contains all the 3-4 fronts and all of the nickel fronts tha the PB had last year (2-4-5, 1-5-5, 1-5-5 prowl and 3-3-5).

[vicious2500]

Great Thread on 3-4. Really learning alot. I don't understand the term "freezing the D." What is it? How do you do it?

Cheers,

Spikeman

It turns man-lock off. If your playing offline all you have to do is hit R1/R-trigger. If your playing online you have to wait until you break the huddle and then you hit hte coverage audible button (Triangle/Y) and then hit (R2/Black button) to freeze the defense. This will keep you defenders in the default lineup of the formation. Even when the offense sends a player in motion.

[dwmoss]

how about some opinions on the spread line and loop and pinch lb's setup??

I'm still not sold on it, it seems i get eaten up on the inside runs. I'm just looking for other opinions.

dm

[gradyflakes]

this does work first make sure you have good 34 team,second know who does what(watch instant replays), third use your safety to funnel hb to your help.

[ahr19]

how about some opinions on the spread line and loop and pinch lb's setup??

I'm still not sold on it, it seems i get eaten up on the inside runs. I'm just looking for other opinions.

dm

Instead of looping the line, try crashing the line down. If that fails, try to pinch your line/crash down and spread your LB's ... or use 3-4 Solid which is very effective as well.

Also bring a LB on a blitz up the guy too ...preferable a LB with high AWR ...

[3-4_Defense]

all 3-4 users that play online add me to your buddy list. my sn is gitonmylevel. I could use some pointers on 3-4 defense.