Cheese or Not Cheese: That is the Q

[FuegoKidd]

i just played chupacabra (HC ranked) and his offense was one play in the hurry up offense. he went into singleback normal and chose hb dive i think. i was playing "lets wait til goaline" defesne where u just sit back and make sure not to give up the deep ball- it was suiggested to me many times on this board. anyways, after one dive and gaining like 6 yards, he hurried the WHOLE drive and did that one play. i find it BS that the only way i could stop him was to burn a TO. duz anybody else have trouble buying a complete hurry up as non-cheese? i mean i know charlie weiss duz it but i mean shiottt... ok if it isnt cheese, any suggestions on how to stop it?

[bjs73]

Were you successful to holding him to 3 points when he eventually did drive the field to the red zone? If so, then he's cutting off his own resources assuming you were able to answer with 7 points on your next drive.

I'd say that as far as strategy to foil his plan is to let him play his game, if you have the offense to back it all up with. Lab up your best A gap run stopping play out of your base and make it one of your audibles. If he comes to the line and starts hot routing or adjusting, audible to some type of pass coverage yourself.

One way or the other, I think you're going to have to make him pass the ball if he can gain 4-6 yards a clip on the ground. Stack the box and make him audible to a pass.

[goh33ls]

To your original question, cheddar or not? Many on this board, me included would say yes.

But the "freestyle" guys might argue (understandably so) that few things are really cheese if you have the skills to stop it. If you like playing a sim style game, then yeah, it could be cheesy. But if you play to win at all costs, regardless of tactics, then hey, its anything goes and if you can't stop me, then you just aren't good enough. :D

[E40]

I was thinking about this last Sunday while checking out the games. It was kind of funny cause I watched Vick drop back and run all over the place and either hit someone down field or take off running. I saw Indy run the no huddle. I saw the two step drop quick pass high to the outside shoulder of the reciever. I saw the formation shifts and audibles. I saw the D-line open up gaps for the Lb's too shoot through. I saw the D-line loop out wide for the sack. Basically a lot of the same stuff that I sit at home and call bs on madden when someone is killing me with this stuff. So I wonder what really is cheese and what is not? When guys say they play sim ball what can't you do? It kind of seems like a lot of the stuff you see people say is weak or cheese does happen on Sunday.

[GAV]

The better question is: to cry, or not to cry.

There is no cheese. Its merely an excuse to put
your mind at ease. Its the easy way out. Why
work to counter something, if its a cheat? If
its a cheat, wouldn't that make it un-counterable?
Since, nothing is uncounterable - there must be a
way, but what? How?

Your answer is one thing. Its not complex either.
Its to not be denied. Once you decide not to be
denied, you will adjust - naturally. Its the struggle
that defines us, and not our triumphs. You're at
your best in the face of adversity. How big is your
world?

[GNorts]

The better question is: to cry, or not to cry.

There is no cheese. Its merely an excuse to put
your mind at ease. Its the easy way out. Why
work to counter something, if its a cheat? If
its a cheat, wouldn't that make it un-counterable?
Since, nothing is uncounterable - there must be a
way, but what? How?

Your answer is one thing. Its not complex either.
Its to not be denied. Once you decide not to be
denied, you will adjust - naturally. Its the struggle
that defines us, and not our triumphs. You're at
your best in the face of adversity. How big is your
world?

This is one of the best post that i have read regarding styles of play in Madden. Good post.

[FuegoKidd]

The better question is: to cry, or not to cry.

There is no cheese. Its merely an excuse to put
your mind at ease. Its the easy way out. Why
work to counter something, if its a cheat? If
its a cheat, wouldn't that make it un-counterable?
Since, nothing is uncounterable - there must be a
way, but what? How?

Your answer is one thing. Its not complex either.
Its to not be denied. Once you decide not to be
denied, you will adjust - naturally. Its the struggle
that defines us, and not our triumphs. You're at
your best in the face of adversity. How big is your
world?'

ur right dude, i guess i just got freaked out cuz this guy was a total ball star lol. this may sound noobish but what is an A-gap blitz?

[TNT713]

No Huddle is NOT CHEESE... It's a legal NFL strategy. By rule, the offense is allowed to dictate when the ball is snapped. Whether it's hurry-up offense or running clock.

The cure for No-Huddle is a plan:

1) Set your defensive audibles to cover several situations.

blitz
man coverage
zone coverage
deep coverage
short yardage

2) Know where they are.
3) Master the L1/R1 shifts and R3 audible.
4) Never call these plays in the playcall screen (it gives you a 6 play rotation)
5) Master the GLOBAL SHIFTS

Lots of tools available...

Later

[TNT713]

this may sound noobish but what is an A-gap blitz?

A-GAp Blitz = Nano.

It's when a rusher comes thru the gap on either side of the center. The next gap out is B, then C.

If a rusher comes free thru the A-Gap it's almost always an instant sack. Teams send pressure thru the A Gap to rattle pocket passers. Happens every week in the NFL. But they roll, motion blockers, slide protection... Just like we can in Madden. ;)

Later

[Chomppig]

The better question is: to cry, or not to cry.

There is no cheese. Its merely an excuse to put
your mind at ease. Its the easy way out. Why
work to counter something, if its a cheat? If
its a cheat, wouldn't that make it un-counterable?
Since, nothing is uncounterable - there must be a
way, but what? How?

Your answer is one thing. Its not complex either.
Its to not be denied. Once you decide not to be
denied, you will adjust - naturally. Its the struggle
that defines us, and not our triumphs. You're at
your best in the face of adversity. How big is your
world?

AMEN. All I got to say about that

[I Nvite DaBlitz]

Sounds like you are used to getting "TIPS" rather than playing long enough to get your butt kicked to figure out what most people like to do:eek:

Its guys like you that always seem to try to
find someone who is going to play the game for you
rather than you lose enough to know how to "PLAY DEFENSE"

[bootleg310]

guys who play strict sim dont know what its like to bump into some guys you knew from high school, and youre pretty confident about your game, and he challenges you for fifty..
and i figure hes a dumbass so i got this..
then he comes through with mike vick and he schools the hell out of my defense with rollouts and hurry up and you know how it goes..
and my friends and his friends laugh and watch me give up 50 bucks just like that..
then the elitist sim mentality goes right out the window/

i mean how can you actually beleive youre good if some moron can come out and beat you by 30 points with only 3 plays..?

[GiantNFC7]

The better question is: to cry, or not to cry.

There is no cheese. Its merely an excuse to put
your mind at ease. Its the easy way out. Why
work to counter something, if its a cheat? If
its a cheat, wouldn't that make it un-counterable?
Since, nothing is uncounterable - there must be a
way, but what? How?

Your answer is one thing. Its not complex either.
Its to not be denied. Once you decide not to be
denied, you will adjust - naturally. Its the struggle
that defines us, and not our triumphs. You're at
your best in the face of adversity. How big is your
world?

LOL Gav, only you can shed light in the most poetic of terms. Do you also play with the Head Coach edition microphone when you play online???? I see you with that clip board next to the sticks too.

[GAV]

LOL Gav, only you can shed light in the most poetic of terms. Do you also play with the Head Coach edition microphone when you play online???? I see you with that clip board next to the sticks too.
Nah. I prefer Madden to Head Coach.

I posted the same thing at "another site" and this is what I got...

Where do we find idiots like you?

Its not real football. Leave.

Go back to your school of the arts and practice your poetry there.

...and then the thread was locked.

The "straight" Madden community is strong, but their thought
process is flawed. Their world is very small.

[ccbill1]

The better question is: to cry, or not to cry.

There is no cheese. Its merely an excuse to put
your mind at ease. Its the easy way out. Why
work to counter something, if its a cheat? If
its a cheat, wouldn't that make it un-counterable?
Since, nothing is uncounterable - there must be a
way, but what? How?

Your answer is one thing. Its not complex either.
Its to not be denied. Once you decide not to be
denied, you will adjust - naturally. Its the struggle
that defines us, and not our triumphs. You're at
your best in the face of adversity. How big is your
world?
I see sales and politics as possible career matches here.

[VikingDave]

The better question is: to cry, or not to cry.

There is no cheese. Its merely an excuse to put
your mind at ease. Its the easy way out. Why
work to counter something, if its a cheat? If
its a cheat, wouldn't that make it un-counterable?
Since, nothing is uncounterable - there must be a
way, but what? How?

Your answer is one thing. Its not complex either.
Its to not be denied. Once you decide not to be
denied, you will adjust - naturally. Its the struggle
that defines us, and not our triumphs. You're at
your best in the face of adversity. How big is your
world?

I don't want to sound like I play Madden too much, but what is "poetry"?

[Sully907]

The Sim community is much stronger then the tourny community.Theres a reason why EA added Random Gap Blitzing,THeres a reason why they toned down the high pass.They recognize 95% of the madden community doesn't want to have to deal with that BS.Don't you ever get sick of a Win at all costs attitude GAV? You guys would put Randy Moss at TE if the game let you...

[moos3p]

The Sim community is much stronger then the tourny community.Theres a reason why EA added Random Gap Blitzing,THeres a reason why they toned down the high pass.They recognize 95% of the madden community doesn't want to have to deal with that BS.Don't you ever get sick of a Win at all costs attitude GAV? You guys would put Randy Moss at TE if the game let you...

Trips bunch all wr package will let you put Moss at TE.
There is an easy counter to that, also. So what is the problem with that

[Sully907]

Tough to argue with a guy who thinks putting a WR at TE is not cheesy...You win

[GAV]

The Sim community is much stronger then the tourny community.Theres a reason why EA added Random Gap Blitzing,THeres a reason why they toned down the high pass.They recognize 95% of the madden community doesn't want to have to deal with that BS.Don't you ever get sick of a Win at all costs attitude GAV? You guys would put Randy Moss at TE if the game let you...
Nah. There's stuff I'll do, and stuff I won't. The point isn't to
do this or that. The point is to adjust to this or that. You'll
never hear me complain about anything. Its my job to adjust.
If I can't, then my opponent should continue to do what they
are doing. Its on me to respond. Straight players also generally
don't all have the same views on what is, and is not, acceptable.
Some may think the high pass is OK to the WRs, but not to
the TE. Others complain if you bump and run. Some complain
if you go deep, despite the fact that they keep creeping up.
Others think short passing is cheese. Certain players complain
if you blitz alot. Every straight player has a different interpretation,
and it always favours their playstyle. They use complaining to
cover up their deficiencies. I complain about nothing, because
everything is OK by me. If something works, you should go with
it. I'll play my game. You play yours. Lets see where it goes.


BTW - Madden IS a video game. You are not Alex Smith. You
are not coach Sully. You are Sully - VIDEO GAME PLAYER!!!:p

[GAV]

Trips bunch all wr package will let you put Moss at TE.
There is an easy counter to that, also. So what is the problem with that

Tough to argue with a guy who thinks putting a WR at TE is not cheesy...You win
You lose the blocking a TE offers, and it shows you that
it's a 4 WR (no TE) set. What's cheesy about that?

[GAV]

guys who play strict sim dont know what its like to bump into some guys you knew from high school, and youre pretty confident about your game, and he challenges you for fifty..
and i figure hes a dumbass so i got this..
then he comes through with mike vick and he schools the hell out of my defense with rollouts and hurry up and you know how it goes..
and my friends and his friends laugh and watch me give up 50 bucks just like that..
then the elitist sim mentality goes right out the window/

i mean how can you actually beleive youre good if some moron can come out and beat you by 30 points with only 3 plays..?
Great post.

[VikingDave]

The point is to adjust to this or that. You'll
never hear me complain about anything. Its my job to adjust.
If I can't, then my opponent should continue to do what they
are doing. Its on me to respond.

I totally agree. The reason I love to play online is to see how I match up - how my gameplan either works or find its weaknesses and fix them. This is much of the joy of the game. When someone comes out with something I have a hard time stopping, I find success in learning how to stop it - even if it takes me the whole game and I lose as a result.

It makes me a better player, and since the strategy is what I love, it makes me enjoy the game even more. I know that some of what you see online is crazy and perhaps even cheese, but I love the idea of seeing if my strategy is strong enough to overcome these one or two play wonders.

[ccbill1]

Great post.
How is that a great post?

Guys that play strict sim don't know what it's like to be humiliated by getting hustled for $50.

LOL....Wow, that's deep.

[GAV]

How is that a great post?

Guys that play strict sim don't know what it's like to be humiliated by getting hustled for $50.

LOL....Wow, that's deep.
Because "sim" players that think they are better than
they are learn a valuable lesson from this. It also
happens alot more than most people think. I was
$600 up on the year last year, and I'm not the champ.

I mean how can you actually believe you're good if some moron can come out and beat you by 30 points with only 3 plays..?

[sliqnes]

I totally agree. The reason I love to play online is to see how I match up - how my gameplan either works or find its weaknesses and fix them. This is much of the joy of the game. When someone comes out with something I have a hard time stopping, I find success in learning how to stop it - even if it takes me the whole game and I lose as a result.

It makes me a better player, and since the strategy is what I love, it makes me enjoy the game even more. I know that some of what you see online is crazy and perhaps even cheese, but I love the idea of seeing if my strategy is strong enough to overcome these one or two play wonders.
Thats the way i think!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ccbill1]

Because "sim" players that think they are better than
they are learn a valuable lesson from this. It also
happens alot more than most people think. I was
$600 up on the year last year, and I'm not the champ.

I mean how can you actually believe you're good if some moron can come out and beat you by 30 points with only 3 plays..?
The true "sim" players could care less about winning and losing. They won't get hustled on sucker bets because "sim" players want to play a game that simulates football, not win money.

If a sim player sees that you have a play that you can run that he can't stop, he would be more than happy to declare you the winner of the game but would prefer not to waste his time playing against that single play for 20 to 30 minutes. For the true "sim" player, it's about the diversity of the experience, not being the best darn Madden player you can be. That doesn't mean the "sim" player won't want to learn how to stop the play giving him fits, but he doesn't want to do that right now. Not in the game. OK, you've mastered the quick pass / deep lob / counter triple combo and can call audibles on me until my fingers can't keep up with yours, that's great and I accept that, now can I enjoy my gaming experience too?

Again, I keep telling you not to put whiners in the same class as sim ballers. The goals and objectives are totally different. When your type grows up, experiences real life and its real problems and realizes that people want different things from their free time (which in some cases is a sim gaming experience), you'll understand where the sim player is coming from. Until then, keep quoting and misapplying empty phrases like winning isn't everything; it's the only thing and feel good about yourself. Ignorance is truly bliss.

That said, I am sure you're a good person and a fine player. My only beef with you is your definition of a "sim" player.

[Sully907]

Extrmely Well put CC.Don't you tourny guys ever get sick of running the same 3 or 4 plays on offense and defense? running no huddle all game and audibling to one of those 3 or 4 plays depending on the opponents defense? Is that fun for you? Well if doing that makes you happy then by all means enjoy it.

[GAV]

The true "sim" players could care less about winning and losing. They won't get hustled on sucker bets because "sim" players want to play a game that simulates football, not win money.
I disagree, but the sim players I've run into always complain
when they lose. When they win, everything is hunkie-dorey.
Sully is probably the only exception I've found.

If a sim player sees that you have a play that you can run that he can't stop, he would be more than happy to declare you the winner of the game but would prefer not to waste his time playing against that single play for 20 to 30 minutes. For the true "sim" player, it's about the diversity of the experience, not being the best darn Madden player you can be. That doesn't mean the "sim" player won't want to learn how to stop the play giving him fits, but he doesn't want to do that right now. Not in the game. OK, you've mastered the quick pass / deep lob / counter triple combo and can call audibles on me until my fingers can't keep up with yours, that's great and I accept that, now can I enjoy my gaming experience too?
Ok, but I enjoy the diversity of styles. Your playstyle is basically an
extension of your personality. My style is to establish something,
then build on my gameplan as my opponent adjusts. I boxed for
10 years, and practiced Pa Qua for another 9 - and my gameplan in that
was very similar. Why should I limit myself because someone frowns
upon my playstyle? I shouldn't and I won't. I'm gonna be me, and my
opponent has every right to be him.


Again, I keep telling you not to put whiners in the same class as sim ballers. The goals and objectives are totally different. When your type grows up, experiences real life and its real problems and realizes that people want different things from their free time (which in some cases is a sim gaming experience), you'll understand where the sim player is coming from. Until then, keep quoting and misapplying empty phrases like winning isn't everything; it's the only thing and feel good about yourself. Ignorance is truly bliss.
Winning is important to everyone. Human beings are competitive and
even the most ego-less of us like to succeed. Sim play sounds almost
like a Civil War re-enactment to me. Are you playing or not?


That said, I am sure you're a good person and a fine player. My only beef with you is your definition of a "sim" player.
I have nothing against you either dawg. I just think that your failing
to see the big picture. When you look at a tree, do you only see the tree
- or do you see the blue sky holding the hot sun that feeds each of its
leaves to make home for the ecosystem? Working toward being like water
is to let go of stress, and be. Working toward being rigid in your thoughts
- always judging - and questioning - is to lead a life of stress. Let it go,
and your world will grow in ways you never thought it could.

[UnKn0wN41510]

At firsy I got to admit when my opp runs a play I cant stop I would call him a cheeser...

but now I would just think of a defense that would best to stop it and adjust some of my guys and most of the time I would stop them...

[GAV]

My best advice is to play down by down. On defense, you
aren't going to shut down his whole gameplan in one play.

What you can do is take away what he is trying to do, from
down - to down. Use your intuition. Once the game progresses
a bit, you should have a good idea what to look for - and cues
probably will be everywhere. Use every hint, and when in doubt
- pick C.

[GAV]

Ego is the basis for limitation.

[maddenbowl62]

Extrmely Well put CC.Don't you tourny guys ever get sick of running the same 3 or 4 plays on offense and defense? running no huddle all game and audibling to one of those 3 or 4 plays depending on the opponents defense? Is that fun for you? Well if doing that makes you happy then by all means enjoy it.

Read this and tell me if the same stuff doesn't happen in the NFL:

Link (http://community.foxsports.com/blogs/footballoutsiders/2006/09/15/Martys_Play_Pamphlet)

You may have noticed that the Chargers ran the ball a lot in their 27-0 win over the Raiders Monday night -- 48 times, by the official count. What you may not have noticed was that the Chargers actually ran the same running plays over and over again.

On the second play of the game, the Chargers ran a reverse to Eric Parker for 18 yards. Later in the drive, they attempted the same reverse, but Philip Rivers and Parker fumbled the exchange. On the next drive, the Chargers faked the reverse to Parker and handed off to LaDainian Tomlinson, who ran off tackle right for 58 yards. They ran the exact same play -- fake reverse left, off tackle right -- on the next down, with L.T. gaining two yards.

By midway through the third quarter, when my DVR of the game went on the fritz, they had run the fake reverse off tackle play three more times, most of the time from the same formation (offset I, twin receivers right). Sometimes Turner took the handoff instead of Tomlinson, but otherwise the plays were almost carbon copies.

Another page of the Chargers playbook was dog-eared by Tuesday morning: the inside counter. They ran this play at least five times in the first three quarters. Usually, Lorenzo Neal started the play in the slot, then came in motion into the backfield as an offset-I fullback. At the snap, the right guard and right tackle pulled around down-blocks by the left guard and tackle, Neal blocked left, and Tomlinson followed Neal.

[Sully907]

1.They ran the same run plays,not pass plays,quite a bit different.

2.I was asking if its FUN for you to do that,i play sim because i want to have a realistic experience and know i beat my opponent and had fun at the same time,not i had 4 plays to pick from and just used those same 4 plays all game depending on my opponents D.Not fun at all.

[assassin216]

1.They ran the same run plays,not pass plays,quite a bit different.

2.I was asking if its FUN for you to do that,i play sim because i want to have a realistic experience and know i beat my opponent and had fun at the same time,not i had 4 plays to pick from and just used those same 4 plays all game depending on my opponents D.Not fun at all.



dont u think it is the player responsiblity to stop those 3 or 4 plays he is usin........if i am facin sumone who blitzes every down it is my responsiblity to leave in people to block or change my route into a slant or sumthin.

last year i was facin sumone who threw on every down at my school.......i mean he threw the ball over the field until i made adjustments and won the game cuz i shut down his passin game........

[Sully907]

Running a slant because your opponent blitzes from that spot every down is one thing.

Doing a preset money play that requires two or 3 audibles to set up over and over again is not only unrealistic its BORING.

[moos3p]

Because we all know that Peyton really isn't audibling 3 or 4 times per play, he's doing those direct tv comercials. And if you can't stop my play, why should I?
Reporter: Coach, why did you run the same play 11 time in a row?

Coach Bear Bryant: I would have run it 12 if they hadn't stopped it on the 11th time.

[Sully907]

I can't believe you just said that as part of your argument,thats so stupid i don't even NEED to refute it.

[moos3p]

Refute what? That you expect the other person to not exploit a weakness in your defense?

[Titans 4 LIFE]

i have never played a good "sim" player. they just ask madden and use vanilla plays with no adjustments and have no creativity, BORING!

[Cowboys_Fever]

Sounds like you are used to getting "TIPS" rather than playing long enough to get your butt kicked to figure out what most people like to do:eek:

Its guys like you that always seem to try to
find someone who is going to play the game for you
rather than you lose enough to know how to "PLAY DEFENSE"

Man stfu, sit down and calm your self. I'm tired of your macho man posts.

[assassin216]

all i am sayin is if i run the same plays over and over again and my opponent dont adjust to it or stop it...........imma keep usin the same play until they do........i may not do it 12 times in a row but i will use again until my opponent proves to me they can stop it......

[GAV]

Madden is all about - move - countermove. Fast adjusting
players will always be successful. Players that refuse to
adjust (and would rather go "cheese, cheese!!!!") will
always be frustrated - and will not rise to the occasion
when faced with adversity.

[Fresh Inc]

Sorry for my noobiness and to interupt in your intense debates, but how exactly do you enable the no huddle?

[FW Grizwald]

To no huddle on ps2 you must hold triangle to run the same play. The Xbox equivalent must be Y.

[Izreal]

On ps2 holding square gives you a no huddle but changes the play.

[pointblank41]

Holding square after a play run the fake spike play.