View Full Version : How to beat a run commit abuser
sideoutshu
10-03-2006, 10:18 AM
I must say that this is the most annoying and unrealistic feature in Madden. It takes absolutely ZERO skill.
Any tips on how to beat someone who uses it on every play?
klink923
10-03-2006, 10:48 AM
I play with the Bears so I get this treatment a lot.
Run commit only works when defenders are in zone coverage. Defenders ignore this feature if they have man resposibilities.
Make sure to have your fastest receiver in the game. Select a play-action pass and max protect. This is almost an automatic six points this year. It works even better if you have the wind at your back.
sideoutshu
10-03-2006, 11:28 AM
Ya, what I am running into is cornballs calling the same 3-deep zones for half the game and then relying on the run commit. It is ironic that the feature was intended to make the game MORE realistic when it in fact does the opposite.
jerseyjay14
10-03-2006, 01:27 PM
What is unrealistic about it? the defenders all yell "ruuuun!" recognizing it as a run play and the defenders then go after ball carrier (a second or so earlier then they woudl normally.)
The run playmaker doesnt work if you call the right runs to the right areqas and have enough hats to put on each defender.
The run playmaker also doesnt work i you throw the ball. in fact the defenders are so out of position that you can get very large gains with little effort.
Wheny ou run playmaker the defenders dont get faster, they dont get stronger, they tackle better...they just all go for the man that has the ball.
wtomasino
10-03-2006, 01:27 PM
Quick tosses and at times strech plays work for me as far as running goes.
As for passing I pray I have a burner at WR 1st. Then I come out in a 2 WR 2 RB 1 TE set, choose a FAST developing PA, use the FB and TE to protect and then send the WR on streaks.
I will keep the cone on 1 WR till I see the Middle defender start to fade that way, then I click on the other guys, toss it up and pray.
This is indeed an annoying feature, because not only do LB's and DB's commit to the run when it's used, but D linemen blow up blocks like crazy.
But don't let it get to you fellas, that will only happen if you allow it to. It's all about how you look at things:
First of all, this feature completely destroys the guys who come out in 1 WR big sets every play and run sweeps, which are very tough to stop without the feature (seriously, how is this kind of offense fun to run?).
Secondly, this feature further seperates skill and intelligence on the field. Don't be scared of the run feature, you can burn it with good running trust me. If you get past that initial wave of guys with a good spin or juke, or if your opponent guessed the wrong side, you can break out for big runs. It's tough no doubt, but if you stay patient you will break one eventually.
And it's the retards and gamblers who abuse this feature, you can make them pay. Remember, it's all a guessing game, and they will eventually guess wrong. Stay patient and try to make them think run when you pass and vice versa.
Overall, this gives an advantage to whoever runs a smarter offense. Simple minded lame offenses that run almost every down are easier to stop, while if you are mixing it up on your side, they are taking a bigger risk by using this feature.
ahr19
10-03-2006, 03:07 PM
My advice would be to run and pass from every formation you use. Also, mix in plenty of Play Action to keep that person off balance ... The less predictable you are the better.
For fun .. try a Flea-Flicker and see what happens ... or a HB Pass play .... wow ... all the open green ...
Also, use misdirection runs too.
sideoutshu
10-03-2006, 05:04 PM
What is unrealistic about it? the defenders all yell "ruuuun!" recognizing it as a run play and the defenders then go after ball carrier (a second or so earlier then they woudl normally.)
The run playmaker doesnt work if you call the right runs to the right areqas and have enough hats to put on each defender.
The run playmaker also doesnt work i you throw the ball. in fact the defenders are so out of position that you can get very large gains with little effort.
Wheny ou run playmaker the defenders dont get faster, they dont get stronger, they tackle better...they just all go for the man that has the ball.
Well for starters:
1. a football field is 100 yards long and 50 yards wide. Why don't you go to an NFL game and try to scream something in the middle of a play to one of your buddies in the crowd 50 feet away from you and see how he responds. I bet he doesn't even hear you at all, let alone discern what you are saying. I was at the Meadowlands a few weeks ago and had to scream at the top of my lungs for my buddy to hear me when he was 4 seats away.
2. Human beings have something called "perception reaction time" which is basically the amount of time it takes a person to perceive an event, process the information, and then react to it. I frequently deal with this concept in car accident cases (ie: foot to brake, etc.) and it is generally accepted that human beings have a perception reaction time of .5-1.0 second. The computer controlled players have a perception reaction time of zero, which is a huge difference when an entire play may last 3-4 seconds. Can you imagine if Ray Lewis or Zach Thomas (two of the more experienced LBers in football) had the power to recognize a run, and then INSTANTANEOUSLY beam the information into the brains of their teamates with absolutely no delay in reaction? You'd be seeing alot more shutouts in the NFL.
3. IRL, a QB can run the same running play 20 times a game, and hand the ball off a different way every time. In Madden, it is the exact same animation, every single time, and hence, easier to spot.
That is just a start. If you want to offer a serious rebuttal to any of the above, I could expand.
Well for starters:
1. a football field is 100 yards long and 50 yards wide. Why don't you go to an NFL game and try to scream something in the middle of a play to one of your buddies in the crowd 50 feet away from you and see how he responds. I bet he doesn't even hear you at all, let alone discern what you are saying. I was at the Meadowlands a few weeks ago and had to scream at the top of my lungs for my buddy to hear me when he was 4 seats away.
2. Human beings have something called "perception reaction time" which is basically the amount of time it takes a person to perceive an event, process the information, and then react to it. I frequently deal with this concept in car accident cases (ie: foot to brake, etc.) and it is generally accepted that human beings have a perception reaction time of .5-1.0 second. The computer controlled players have a perception reaction time of zero, which is a huge difference when an entire play may last 3-4 seconds. Can you imagine if Ray Lewis or Zach Thomas (two of the more experienced LBers in football) had the power to recognize a run, and then INSTANTANEOUSLY beam the information into the brains of their teamates with absolutely no delay in reaction? You'd be seeing alot more shutouts in the NFL.
3. IRL, a QB can run the same running play 20 times a game, and hand the ball off a different way every time. In Madden, it is the exact same animation, every single time, and hence, easier to spot.
That is just a start. If you want to offer a serious rebuttal to any of the above, I could expand.
Dude you are really over-thinking here. It's just a game and they can't simulate every nuance of the game, they can only implement new things each year and try to make it better and more fun to play.
Anyway, don't think of it as a guy literally screaming "RUN!" and then the rest of the team reacting to that. I think the only reason they made it like that is so you can tell when your opponent used the feature. Just think of it as the defense expecting a run before the play even happens and going after it.
With video games, sometimes you just have to think of things as "the ends justifies the means." This may not be a pretty feature, but it adds more depth and strategy to gameplay, making the game more fun IMO.
GNorts
10-03-2006, 06:04 PM
Well for starters:
1. a football field is 100 yards long and 50 yards wide. Why don't you go to an NFL game and try to scream something in the middle of a play to one of your buddies in the crowd 50 feet away from you and see how he responds. I bet he doesn't even hear you at all, let alone discern what you are saying. I was at the Meadowlands a few weeks ago and had to scream at the top of my lungs for my buddy to hear me when he was 4 seats away.
2. Human beings have something called "perception reaction time" which is basically the amount of time it takes a person to perceive an event, process the information, and then react to it. I frequently deal with this concept in car accident cases (ie: foot to brake, etc.) and it is generally accepted that human beings have a perception reaction time of .5-1.0 second. The computer controlled players have a perception reaction time of zero, which is a huge difference when an entire play may last 3-4 seconds. Can you imagine if Ray Lewis or Zach Thomas (two of the more experienced LBers in football) had the power to recognize a run, and then INSTANTANEOUSLY beam the information into the brains of their teamates with absolutely no delay in reaction? You'd be seeing alot more shutouts in the NFL.
3. IRL, a QB can run the same running play 20 times a game, and hand the ball off a different way every time. In Madden, it is the exact same animation, every single time, and hence, easier to spot.
That is just a start. If you want to offer a serious rebuttal to any of the above, I could expand.
I played football. the coach made everyone yell pass pass pass on a normal play, when the ball was thrown in the air we yell "ball" when it was run we yell "RUN!". On a int the guy with the ball yelled "BINGO" once. You could turn your back to the play and know everything that was happening. With training reaction time is zero. You heard "bingo" and you would start killing people instantly. Also with training handing the ball off would be the same every time. Except when you screw up. The best teams are machine like, very little thinking involved.
committ is pretty annoying IMO. it allows you to stuff the run without setting up to stop it.
it would be okay if it were just for stuffing runs up the gut, but you can do it to any run, and you can usually determine what side someone is running to in a second.
it just pisses me off when i see committ called and suddenly the d lineman hulks out and just breaks off his blocker instantly. i don't really like to use it unless i'm in short yardage situations.
sideoutshu
10-03-2006, 08:05 PM
I played football. the coach made everyone yell pass pass pass on a normal play, when the ball was thrown in the air we yell "ball" when it was run we yell "RUN!". On a int the guy with the ball yelled "BINGO" once. You could turn your back to the play and know everything that was happening. With training reaction time is zero. You heard "bingo" and you would start killing people instantly. Also with training handing the ball off would be the same every time. Except when you screw up. The best teams are machine like, very little thinking involved.
You played NFL football? If so, then maybe you are right, if not....you really can't compare it. I played very high level High School Football (Class A New York State Semifinals, ex-teamate starting in the NFL currently, etc.) and of course you yell those things, but I guarantee you that when a OLB yells it, the CB with his back turned 10 yards down field didn't always hear it. Further, you can't compare the level noise involved in an NFL game to high school. Saying "I played football" doesn't give you any more credibility then the other 75% of guys on this board who "played football".
Reaction time is never zero, as I stated, it is a physiological fact that the brain can only perceive/process/react so quickly.
sideoutshu
10-03-2006, 08:09 PM
Dude you are really over-thinking here. It's just a game and they can't simulate every nuance of the game, they can only implement new things each year and try to make it better and more fun to play.
Anyway, don't think of it as a guy literally screaming "RUN!" and then the rest of the team reacting to that. I think the only reason they made it like that is so you can tell when your opponent used the feature. Just think of it as the defense expecting a run before the play even happens and going after it.
With video games, sometimes you just have to think of things as "the ends justifies the means." This may not be a pretty feature, but it adds more depth and strategy to gameplay, making the game more fun IMO.
I'm not overthinking. I said it was unrealistic (it is); someone asked me how, so I explained. It's pretty simple actually.
What does "the end justifying the means" have to do with it? If I think the "end" sucks......wouldn't the "means" be objectionable? The entire point of that phrase is that through the use of questionable/objectionable methods, you GET A WORTHY RESULT. It has no application if, as I have stated, I don't consider the result worthy.
They really need to bring NFK 2K series back. It was soooooo much more realistic.
drunkenstarfish
10-03-2006, 08:15 PM
I am having a hard time with it too. Even in league games if you start running well on someone be prepared for it. It's pretty lame IMO when a DT or DE just throws a OL aside like he is nothing and runs straight to the RB and flattens him in the backfield, but it's just something else to fight through.
Snoogins
TNT713
10-03-2006, 09:45 PM
IRL, coaches attack teams that aggressively attack the run by using Play Action, screens, etc...
Works in Madden too.
Later
moos3p
10-04-2006, 12:32 AM
In the NFL, they spend hours and hours watching film, looking for little things to tell them if it is run or pass. Maybe the LGs right foot is back half an inch on a run play. Maybe the cadence is different. Whatever it is, the coaches have players key on these things to know the what the play is (or think it is). If Ray Lewis reads run and reacts to it, his teamates will react as well. Since the hand off will take .5 to 1.0 seconds, the reaction time is basically 0 secs.
Since we cant see the little things, we get a run/pass commit button.
UnKn0wN41510
10-04-2006, 01:22 AM
PA = deep ball.....
jerseyjay14
10-04-2006, 07:52 AM
Well for starters:
1. a football field is 100 yards long and 50 yards wide. Why don't you go to an NFL game and try to scream something in the middle of a play to one of your buddies in the crowd 50 feet away from you and see how he responds. I bet he doesn't even hear you at all, let alone discern what you are saying. I was at the Meadowlands a few weeks ago and had to scream at the top of my lungs for my buddy to hear me when he was 4 seats away.
2. Human beings have something called "perception reaction time" which is basically the amount of time it takes a person to perceive an event, process the information, and then react to it. I frequently deal with this concept in car accident cases (ie: foot to brake, etc.) and it is generally accepted that human beings have a perception reaction time of .5-1.0 second. The computer controlled players have a perception reaction time of zero, which is a huge difference when an entire play may last 3-4 seconds. Can you imagine if Ray Lewis or Zach Thomas (two of the more experienced LBers in football) had the power to recognize a run, and then INSTANTANEOUSLY beam the information into the brains of their teamates with absolutely no delay in reaction? You'd be seeing alot more shutouts in the NFL.
3. IRL, a QB can run the same running play 20 times a game, and hand the ball off a different way every time. In Madden, it is the exact same animation, every single time, and hence, easier to spot.
That is just a start. If you want to offer a serious rebuttal to any of the above, I could expand.
noneed im not going to waste my time on nonsesne...ill just pass you the tissues and let the *****-fest continue. look out for the wahmbulence
sideoutshu
10-04-2006, 08:51 AM
noneed im not going to waste my time on nonsesne...ill just pass you the tissues and let the *****-fest continue. look out for the wahmbulence
How is it a *****-fest? I started this thread looking for help, and I get 16 posts of people looking to argue about whether the feature is realistic. If anyone is *****ing, it is you and the others who have completely ignored my question to address your own agenda.
I hollered what it was every defensive play in High School.
Just make it risky. I don't even understand what you're
complaining about. If they're run playmakering up the
middle all the time, then I suggest running to the outside
- throwing the ball, or using a screen pass. If you're
overly predictable, then you're not going anywhere.
Expand your offense, and stop blaming others/outside
factors for your struggles. Get tough, and do something
about it. This isn't pattie-cake, its war!!! :p :p :p
sideoutshu
10-04-2006, 01:16 PM
I hollered what it was every defensive play in High School.
Just make it risky. I don't even understand what you're
complaining about. If they're run playmakering up the
middle all the time, then I suggest running to the outside
- throwing the ball, or using a screen pass. If you're
overly predictable, then you're not going anywhere.
Expand your offense, and stop blaming others/outside
factors for your struggles. Get tough, and do something
about it. This isn't pattie-cake, its war!!! :p :p :p
I am not "blaming" or "complaining"......I WAS LOOKING FOR ASSISTANCE.....a point missed by the people responding to this thread in seek of an argument.
Basically, I don't have the time some people have to sit and play Madden for 20-40 hours a week. Hence, I am looking for some guidance from those who do.
warren123
10-04-2006, 01:18 PM
I am not "blaming" or "complaining"......I WAS LOOKING FOR ASSISTANCE.....a point missed by the people responding to this thread in seek of an argument.
Basically, I don't have the time some people have to sit and play Madden for 20-40 hours a week. Hence, I am looking for some guidance from those who do.
you dont need to play 40 hours a week to just call a PA when they run committ. come out in a big set motion the fb and make it look like a run but have it be a PA the guy will usually still do it
STICKTHEVICKTIM
10-04-2006, 01:39 PM
Yeah Commit Mongers Are Gay, Especially The Ones Who Do It On Pass And Runs All Day. I Complained Once, And Switched My Game Up. I Think My Last Few Games, I Still Encountered It, But After I Come Out In Singleback Big, Make The Te's Block And Run A Playaction, After I Run A Couple Of Hb Slams, The Playaction Had Both Of Wr's Wide Open. It Sucks, But It Is Just Like Any Abused Flaw, You Can Kill It.
warren123
10-04-2006, 01:43 PM
Yeah Commit Mongers Are Gay, Especially The Ones Who Do It On Pass And Runs All Day. I Complained Once, And Switched My Game Up. I Think My Last Few Games, I Still Encountered It, But After I Come Out In Singleback Big, Make The Te's Block And Run A Playaction, After I Run A Couple Of Hb Slams, The Playaction Had Both Of Wr's Wide Open. It Sucks, But It Is Just Like Any Abused Flaw, You Can Kill It.
how is it a flaw? if you read run or pass you commit to it, if your wrong you give up a big play.
people are complaining about it now yet last year it was in the game and people could read run/pass before you even hiked it that was much worse
I must say that this is the most annoying and unrealistic feature in Madden. It takes absolutely ZERO skill.
Ya, what I am running into is cornballs calling the same 3-deep zones for half the game and then relying on the run commit. It is ironic that the feature was intended to make the game MORE realistic when it in fact does the opposite.
This isn't pointing fingers and complaining?
I'm not exactly an offensive juggernaught, but I'll do my
best to help. PM me which PB you run, and what is your
favorite sets. I'll look 'em over, and come up with something
for sure. Is it man or zone that's giving you problems?
sideoutshu
10-04-2006, 03:43 PM
This isn't pointing fingers and complaining?
I'm not exactly an offensive juggernaught, but I'll do my
best to help. PM me which PB you run, and what is your
favorite sets. I'll look 'em over, and come up with something
for sure. Is it man or zone that's giving you problems?
I guess it depends on how you look at it. It isn't like I'm one of these guys on the board who thinks that they are awesome and but for the Commit, he would kill people. I am not saying it's cheesing, cheating, etc. It is just completely unrealistic, and realizing that, I am looking for a heads up to save me 10 more frustrating games before I figure it out myself.
The good thing about this experience is that it made me spend some real time playing the game. Until last night I had only played like 10 games of 2007.
I guess it depends on how you look at it. It isn't like I'm one of these guys on the board who thinks that they are awesome and but for the Commit, he would kill people. I am not saying it's cheesing, cheating, etc. It is just completely unrealistic, and realizing that, I am looking for a heads up to save me 10 more frustrating games before I figure it out myself.
The good thing about this experience is that it made me spend some real time playing the game. Until last night I had only played like 10 games of 2007.
Its actually funny that I'm arguing this, because I hardly
ever use the run commit feature. I probably use it less
than 5% of the time. That said, I have no problem with the
feature. I don't think it is unrealistic at all. Its also quite
beatable. You use any pitches, draws, or screens? Vertical
routes aren't the only route that's effective in taking
advantage of the run commit. Any route that has an early
cut in it - like a short turnaround or out - or a slant (in or
out) - or especially posts and post corners are money and
can possibly be a quick six. Use it to YOUR advantage by
playing the mental game.
I am not "blaming" or "complaining"......I WAS LOOKING FOR ASSISTANCE.....a point missed by the people responding to this thread in seek of an argument.
Basically, I don't have the time some people have to sit and play Madden for 20-40 hours a week. Hence, I am looking for some guidance from those who do.
Well first of all, I actually made a fairly lengthy post to try to help you out. And second, everyone else is saying things that can help you as well, you are just being too sensitive to see that.
The problem is not something you are doing wrong in a technical, x's and o's sense (think about it...the solution from an x's and o's standpoint is blatently obvious and simple)...it's a mental issue. As harsh as JerseyJay is in making his point, he's still got a good point. You have to stop with the throw-your-hands-up mentality, stop focusing on how unrealistic it is or cheap or whatever you want to say about it...that's just frustration, let it go.
I was saying you are overthinking things...well if you break the feature down to this simple point of view you can see what I mean - all it is, is the defense will make more plays when they know you're running, and especially if they know which side. Take it further than that if you want to but you are only hurting yourself. And I'll say this again as well: you can break big runs against the run feature when you break through that initial wave.
When you stop focusing on how many hours of practice you have and whether certain things are unrealistic and all that distracting BS, and start focusing on keeping yourself in the right mentality to take on anything thrown at you and keep your head in the game, you will see a world of difference in your gameplay. I believe reading a sports psychology book will help any player 10x more than reading a strategy guide (try it, really). If you know football you can come up with your own strategy and style, the rest is mental focus.
I play about 3 games a week, but I beat guys with over 100 games under their belt all the time. I'm not trying to brag at all, just saying that mental focus is more important than x's and o's, IMO. I beat guys that know more about this game than me because I am more mentally disciplined than them, not because I get lucky or my style matches up well with theirs (those things are part of it, but the mental discipline is the biggest part).
Hope this helps you and others, good luck!
dirty_slugz
10-06-2006, 12:24 PM
Well first of all, I actually made a fairly lengthy post to try to help you out. And second, everyone else is saying things that can help you as well, you are just being too sensitive to see that.
The problem is not something you are doing wrong in a technical, x's and o's sense (think about it...the solution from an x's and o's standpoint is blatently obvious and simple)...it's a mental issue. As harsh as JerseyJay is in making his point, he's still got a good point. You have to stop with the throw-your-hands-up mentality, stop focusing on how unrealistic it is or cheap or whatever you want to say about it...that's just frustration, let it go.
I was saying you are overthinking things...well if you break the feature down to this simple point of view you can see what I mean - all it is, is the defense will make more plays when they know you're running, and especially if they know which side. Take it further than that if you want to but you are only hurting yourself. And I'll say this again as well: you can break big runs against the run feature when you break through that initial wave.
When you stop focusing on how many hours of practice you have and whether certain things are unrealistic and all that distracting BS, and start focusing on keeping yourself in the right mentality to take on anything thrown at you and keep your head in the game, you will see a world of difference in your gameplay. I believe reading a sports psychology book will help any player 10x more than reading a strategy guide (try it, really). If you know football you can come up with your own strategy and style, the rest is mental focus.
I play about 3 games a week, but I beat guys with over 100 games under their belt all the time. I'm not trying to brag at all, just saying that mental focus is more important than x's and o's, IMO. I beat guys that know more about this game than me because I am more mentally disciplined than them, not because I get lucky or my style matches up well with theirs (those things are part of it, but the mental discipline is the biggest part).
Hope this helps you and others, good luck!
I agree u can get frustrated with ur offensive linemen all game long and throw 6 picks and gain negative rushing yards but if u keep ur head in the game and not get PO'd at just a video game u still can come out winning its all about outsmarting opponents when it matters
I agree u can get frustrated with ur offensive linemen all game long and throw 6 picks and gain negative rushing yards but if u keep ur head in the game and not get PO'd at just a video game u still can come out winning its all about outsmarting opponents when it matters
Yes exactly. The key is recognizing when you are losing your cool as soon as possible and stopping it. It's hard to do sometimes but with practice, you'll get better (and this skill extends beyond the video game friends...man I love football :D ). I can feel my body heat rise and I focus on cooling down so I can think clearly. And no matter what happens, I think about what I could've done to avoid it, then let it go.
And even if you don't come back from mistakes to win, there's a difference between losing and losing respectably. Showing integrity kind of gets lost on the internet when people have the comfort of anonymity, but I think it's important regardless. Then again, what's the name of that theory that says people show their true character on the internet? Could be true.
Sorry I tend to go on tangents heh.
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