Qb Wrap

[heavy_hitter]

I hate this play. It is another NO SKILL play that seems to be the cup of tea for the day. Everyone online is running it. Well, everyone in our league is beginning to run it.

The way I see it is that it is an AI abuser. Basically, the defense bites on the fake to the RB everytime. It doesn't matter if you commit run, commit pass, or don't commit at all the defenders follow the RB everytime.

If you run commit or pass commit, every defensive player seems to get blocked. Run commit is the worse thing you can do. Yes folks, what should stop the play doesn't. If you Run commit you are basically telling the AI to block your defenders because that is what happens.

Not commiting at all seems to be the best thing to do and you will still give up 5 yards a pop.

I was wondering what everyone else was using to stop this play. Even when I know it is coming, I am giving up 5+ yards. I played a game last night and knew what the play was. Set up the defense to stop it and the QB still ran for 5 yards.

This play and the QB Option Pass out of SG are about the 2 gayest plays I have seen this year.

[blueweeds]

ive never used that play but if it works like that i might have to try... a 5 yard run for me damn thats a long one....

[TnGolf22]

This play really doesn't work that well. You're just posting this to goad other players into using this play against you so you can stuff them on a few runs.

[M-Dub�]

I've tried this play a few times with CU (B Jax has 85 spd) and I've never had a great deal of success with it. I don't really like any of the read plays that force me to run with my QB if I don't make the initial give. Fumbles are too crazy on this game to run with my QB that much. I love having a fast QB and running option, but only if I have a pitch man.

Heavy, have you tried committing to the side the QB runs to? I'm assuming people try to take it wide...

I do agree about the SG Option Pass though. The slot WR is WIDE open about 80% of the time on that. Like nobody within 5 yards of him, usually. I'd rather see HB Direct than that crap.

[Avenge1]

Come on. In all due respect for you ... come on.

I ran that play twice and it just so happened to work. It never works, and I was surprised to see that it actually worked like it was supposed to once ... especially considering the person it worked against. ;)

Most people stop it cold all the time. I know I easily stop it.

And, did you not run the "gay" option pass 2 or 3 times? I never ran that play, but you did.

Geez, I maybe ran 3 options and 2 qb wraps ... and they actually worked for once .. and now they take "no skill"?

Heavy, you know better. If your offense is hard to stop, then it is just pure offensive talent. However, if someone runs a complex offense full of variety that you for some reason cannot stop during one off night ... then it becomes lame with no skill.

Lets put this in perspective.

My offense last night (roughly):

40% dropback or PA short/medium route passes.
10% long passes
10% option
10% QB draw/QB power/QB wrap
30% handoffs (such as dives and slams and counters)

Your offense last night (roughly):

65% dropback or PA medium to long passes
5% option passes
10% option
20% handoffs

Yet .. you are going to say that I ran a no skill offense when I was calling every play in the book ... including a grand total of 2 QB wraps? :(

Are we not allowed to take advantage of mobile quarterbacks on designed plays? I can understand calling scrambling lame, but a few qb wraps and qb draws? It's your job to stop it .. and believe me, it's more than possible to stop.

You were just having an off night.

EDIT: And before you say "why did you call me out?". Anyone who looks at your last 10 games can see you were referring to me. Therefore, I felt the need to tell it like it really is. That play is not lame. Read plays are not lame. The offense I ran was nowhere even near one that requires "no skill". I ran quick hitches, quick posts, outs, ins, etc. ... mixed with a few QB designed runs and shotgun read handoffs.

For God sakes, I was Vanderbilt. If you are going to let Vandy pour in 45 in 4 quarters and let that innacurate QB complete all of his short passes easily ... then maybe that points to you either you getting a screwjob by EA (which I'll admit I got some breaks and carried momentum) ... or you just having a bad defesive night.

I take offense when someone knows a play is not abusing AI (especially a play that is not even successful most of the time), and makes it into an issue because it actually worked once for a 15 yard TD run.

[swampee]

In my other league I have Washington and it barely works with the best running qb in the game. That league is on heisman so that could be it, but it sure doesnt seem that grwat to me.

[heavy_hitter]

With all do respect Avenge, that post had little do with you. You were the last person that ran it and I have seen it several times lately.

I labbed this with Born last night and he basically had to set up a gimmick defense to stop it.

I ran it against M-Dub last night and was picking up an easy 5 yards a pop. It was implementing the rest of the Option game with it that I couldn't do.

I labbed it in practice mode with Iowa against Nickle Thunder and picked up positive yardage every time with Drew Fricking Tate. I even went 20 plus against Nickle Thunder with Drew Fricking Tate on several occasions. Had I had a QB with at least a 75 speed I would have picked up 5 yds a pop.

When I labbed it, it seemed like every defender got picked up by a blocker. This doesn't really happen in any run play on the game. The defenders suction right in.

I was simply asking a question and you get all huffy. This is one of the few times when I posted and wasn't trying to call someone out. I was asking a legit question. I didn't call you out because I am still contemplating on whether it is cheesey or not. I personally still think it is gay. I think the 335 defense, counters, WR screens, SG option passes and other plays are gay. Doesn't mean I won't use them and doesn't mean I will complain about other people using them. It's just the way the EA makes them work that makes them gay. Those are just words man and didn't mean to take away from your wins. That is why I didn't say your name. You won fair and square and I told you that after the game. Even left you good feedback.

I was having a bad night and can admit that. I have had a bad few days since being on a 19 game win streak. We all go through slumps. You had me confused on offense all night. You got me out of a rythm. You have even admitted that when you get out of rythm that you start trying to press too much and do things that you don't normally do. The option pass was out of spite from how much success you were having out of the Wrap play and implementing the rest of the option game an short passes with it.

However, the post had nothing to do with losing. It had nothing to do with saying AVENGE used that play against me. I want to know how to stop that play. In fact, you even said after the game "I discovered that play about 10 games ago." I don't think you would run it if you had found that it didn't work. Why would you run a play that didn't work?

I still haven't figured out how to stop that play. The jury is still out.

[heavy_hitter]

In my other league I have Washington and it barely works with the best running qb in the game. That league is on heisman so that could be it, but it sure doesnt seem that grwat to me.

I don't know about Heisman. But I know on AA it works. The key is to set up everything up behind it. Slants, off tackle with HB, SG Triple option, etc. You set those up and the QB Wrap will get huge gains. You don't set them up and you are still getting good gains from that one play.

I didn't think this play was that effective just looking at it either. Then I saw people run it with success against me. I then labbed it.

I want to know how to stop it.

[TnGolf22]

I don't play online so maybe I shouldn't have said it doesn't work. Is online play more of an AA level when it comes to the AI controlled players? I just know at Heisman so many running plays and screens don't work near as well as on AA and QB Wrap is one of them.

I often call plays like this too now and then even though I know they don't work just to throw something different at my opponents. Every once in a while they actually do work well.

[TnGolf22]

Heavy,

Have you tried Dime Hulk 2 against this? I find it stops many outside runs. Also try 4-3 over cover-2 man. Shift the DL to weakside and control the LB closest to the line on the opposite side to counter any runs.

[Avenge1]

Ok, I get what you are saying. I guess when someone says a particular play I was running is gay, I take it as - I am using something I know will work ...or in other words, I am playing unfair or something ... which I have no intention of playing unfair.

The thing is, I can easily say that half the time I run that play, my QB gets instantly stuffed. Half of the times he is instantly stuffed, he fumbles. IMO, it's nowhere near a play that works every time. I think it should work (in theory) every time against nickle thunder green because the two LBs will be going inside to the RB, and the man to man defenders will get blocked. In that case, just take the QB outside, then cut back inside, and he should be free.

I think normal defenses do a good job of stopping it, but to be honest - I havn't seen the play that much because people don't run it that much ... because it's not usually a successful play (at least against good defenses). The only other person I've ever seen who actually likes this play is Rhombic, but he's dissapeared off the earth lately.

BTW, after the game, I didn't say I discovered "that play" 10 games ago. I said "I discovered this effective offense" 10 games ago. By that, I meant the WVU type offense that bases itself on HB Read plays, QB draws, and Short, Quick Passes. I've taken that offense and made some adjustments in which I run/pass around 50/50 and surprise with the ocassional deep ball. I will be using that offense with Vandy (if I get them) in season V. It's very fun to run.

Sorry for getting pissed, but I was interpreting your post as the usual "this person played like an ***" post ... without naming my name specifically.

[rhombic21]

LMAO @ this thread.

[heavy_hitter]

Ok, I get what you are saying. I guess when someone says a particular play I was running is gay, I take it as - I am using something I know will work ...or in other words, I am playing unfair or something ... which I have no intention of playing unfair.

The thing is, I can easily say that half the time I run that play, my QB gets instantly stuffed. Half of the times he is instantly stuffed, he fumbles. IMO, it's nowhere near a play that works every time. I think it should work (in theory) every time against nickle thunder green because the two LBs will be going inside to the RB, and the man to man defenders will get blocked. In that case, just take the QB outside, then cut back inside, and he should be free.

I think normal defenses do a good job of stopping it, but to be honest - I havn't seen the play that much because people don't run it that much ... because it's not usually a successful play (at least against good defenses). The only other person I've ever seen who actually likes this play is Rhombic, but he's dissapeared off the earth lately.

BTW, after the game, I didn't say I discovered "that play" 10 games ago. I said "I discovered this effective offense" 10 games ago. By that, I meant the WVU type offense that bases itself on HB Read plays, QB draws, and Short, Quick Passes. I've taken that offense and made some adjustments in which I run/pass around 50/50 and surprise with the ocassional deep ball. I will be using that offense with Vandy (if I get them) in season V. It's very fun to run.

Sorry for getting pissed, but I was interpreting your post as the usual "this person played like an ***" post ... without naming my name specifically.


I can see where you would interpret the thread that way. I know I can be a dick, but that was not my intention.

Maybe it is the way I play defense. I don't know. What I do know is that I don't stop the QB Wrap play. Maybe everyone will use it against me now that they no I can't stop it.