What do you consider cheesing?

[808 Packers]

Well last night I played like 4 people using my boys the Packers, and I, like everyone read the D. So if I audible or even flip the play, or put someone in motion, is that considered cheesing?

Im not one of those that puts the WR in motion then snap the ball behind the line to get the DB stuck (ghey in my opinion).

They were using Miami, and the Vikings which I feel are competitive to the Packers, but what do you consider cheesing?

[darkfire]

Originally posted by 808 Packers
Well last night I played like 4 people using my boys the Packers, and I, like everyone read the D. So if I audible or even flip the play, or put someone in motion, is that considered cheesing?

Im not one of those that puts the WR in motion then snap the ball behind the line to get the DB stuck (ghey in my opinion).

They were using Miami, and the Vikings which I feel are competitive to the Packers, but what do you consider cheesing?

Yo brah! I just noticed that your location is Honolulu. My mom lives in Waipio and my brother and his family live by UH. I hope to visit my mom in July. I live in NC now. It just dawned on me that the 808 # is the area code for Hawaii....lol.

There's another thread asking the same question you just asked in the Cheezers thread. Check it out.

[darkfire]

Originally posted by 808 Packers
Well last night I played like 4 people using my boys the Packers, and I, like everyone read the D. So if I audible or even flip the play, or put someone in motion, is that considered cheesing?

Im not one of those that puts the WR in motion then snap the ball behind the line to get the DB stuck (ghey in my opinion).

They were using Miami, and the Vikings which I feel are competitive to the Packers, but what do you consider cheesing?

Flipping the play or putting someone in motion isn't considered cheesing. You know that the definition of cheesing is as varied as the number of opinions at this site. One is cheese to one is not to another. My definition is anything that causes an unfair advantage over your or your opponent's AI or situation. Like you said...sending a WR in motion then snapping behind the line to get the DB stuck. That's cheese.

My rule of thumb is...if they don't do it in real football...it's cheese. To others, they believe...it's just a video game...why can't I push the software to it's limits...like I said, like opinions and viewpoints....Just like an ***hole...everyone's got one.

[TNT713]

Sup guys...

I'd like to offer some information that most people either don't know, or haven't thought of, but it's information that is available in many books on the origins of football.

This one deal with snapping the ball while a WR in motion is still behind the offensive line.

A long time ago, before any of us were born, it was typical for the HB to take the snap from center from a hybrid Goal Line/Shotgun formation. All the blockers lined up tight, the HB would motion to a side and the C would snap the ball to the HB in motion... Mind you this was before the forward pass was legal.

In the early 1920's an assistant coach under George Halas started sending players other than the HB in motion and placed the QB under center (he's been a blocking back up until then).

Why the new "motion?"

Simple. When a defender in man coverage ran with the offensive player, he would often lose focus on him as he navigated thru linebacker traffic. In addition to that, it forced the defense to adjust to the new offensive formation.

When the forward pass became a real threat in the mid 1940's, motion had evolved. Against man to man defenses, WR were able to rub off defenders by crossing thier pass routes, chip block on pass rushers, etc...

Today on Madden, many players use the same concepts when they motion a WR through the line. On blitzes, the WR will do a makeshift pass block before releasing into the pattern in addition to causing some defenders to rub each other of of coverage.

As a defensive adjustment, teams would switch coverage assignments when the eligible receivers were "stacked" at the snap. Meaning, the defender on the outside would break with the receiver running routes to the outside and the inside defender would run with the receiver on routes to the inside.

Both of these concepts are true to both Madden 2003 and 2004. When the defense runs man coverage and the offense snaps the ball when an eligible recevier is "stacked" behind ANY other receiver (TE, Slot, HB, FB, Etc.), the defenders will swap coverage assignments in an effort NOT to get rubbed out of the play. Often that coverage switch causes a LB to cover a WR in space, when it was the intention of the defensive coach to have a CB covering that WR.

Since most Madden players don't study thier own coverages, they also do not understand the weaknesses in those coverages. They sometimes tend to run weak coverages over and over again against a particular offensive attack and are frustrated when the offensive design beats their defensive design.

It's not a glitch. However many consider the use of these tactics to be "cheese." Instead, this tactic was developed as a method to free up a receiver by forcing the CB to fight through LB traffic while maintaining eye contact with the WR without getting rubbed out of the play by his own man. VERY HARD TO DO.

If more defensive coaches would make better use of audibles, improve thier knowledge of coverages, and make manual adjustments to thier defensive alignments the "Motion Glitch" as it's commonly referred would be a thing of the past...

Hope this helps someone.

Later

[darkfire]

Hey TNT! I live in Saratoga, just outside of Wilson. About 60 miles from Raleigh. Very informative and good analysis. Yes, I agree with a lot you've said. I think some "clubs" go a little far in restricting moves that, as you said, is more of an annoyance than a glitch or cheese. Some people consider cheesing anything they can't defend against. Just cause someone constantly runs goalline and runs all over me...well, I consider it a challenge to find something to defend against it and stop their bread and butter offense.
The same with WR in motion. I don't think it's cheese to send them past the TE and snap the ball when they're in a position that will make their route the most effective. They do it in the NFL for reasons you've already stated. But sending them through the line sometimes can create more problems than it's worth. Particularly if they're blitzing. Sometimes the WR like the HB will get knocked down so you're prime receiver is taken out of the equation.
Hope to see you on line. There is a str8 room and web site that I think you'll be interested in. Check this out if you want by sending an email to Str8madden2004@yahoo.com. Tell him that Str8 Sar NC recommends you. He'll give you information and you'll have to go through a "trial" to establish your "str8ness"....lol.
I play under both Str8 Sar NC and Bojacham. Let me know when you're on line so we can give it a go.

[TNT713]

darkfire...

Good to see someone from NC that I don't know already... LOL.

I catch alot of flack for having different views. Alot of people assume that my opinions about strategies and the strategies I use are similar... They are NOT.

I play by "str8" rules for the most part. But I place a higher priority on coaching and adjustments than on allowing my opponent to have fun. If they are having fun, they are probably able to move the ball and prevent me from moving the ball... I don't want anyone having fun but me. LOL.

Later