What Will Be Your Base Defensive System?

[mad_bomber]

Just curious with the new 3-3-5 and 4-2-5 defenses being added to NCAA 2005, do any of you think you might use either of those defensive systems as your base defense? Just looking at the few plays I've ssen from various videos I'm inclined to go that route. I especially like the idea of using the 30 Stack adjustments with the 3-4 along with the new 30 Stack defense.

[FlaPride]

Yeah I like the adjusted 3-4 30 stack for certain situations and against certain formations. I can't wait to get a hold of the new game so I can see exactly what I will be working with. If those new defenses get the same kind of pressure that would be great too.

[Jeremy7679]

Ive been a fan of the 4-2-5, so I plan on using it as my base defense.

[mad_bomber]

Yeah, the new 4-2-5 does look promising.

[skillz97]

I will be running the 3-3 (and the 3-4) as it has a lot of similarties to my favored 46(bear) scheme. I hope the trend of making defense more of a priority in the games is something we can look forward too. I would love to see the 46(bear) in college football, it was very succesful at cincinati and Oklahoma state when Rex and Rob Ryan were defensive coordinators at those two schools. But even more importantly i want the ability to set my defnsive formation, so if or when i sim a game it will sim in the 3-4, since i am recruiting for the 3-4 scheme, it makes a big difference.

By the way Bomber, I read your Bio, i too coach, i 've been at the jr. High, high school, and semi-pro level here in arizona for the past 10 years and have always found time to get in my Video Gamming, you...should see the kids face when i kick their teeth in, they dont think, "old" coach knows a thing about playing, but after a few "schoolings" word spread pretty quick. I took my Xbox on our last senior retreat and even got some of the coaches who dont ever play video games (atleast not since atari 2600 :D ) hooked on NCAA 2004.

[mad_bomber]

I've been reading up on Semi-pro football. Have you heard of the AzFL? Also, in reading your post I could tell you had some type of coaching background. The similarities are there with the 3-3 and the 46 from a philosophical standpoint.

[skillz97]

In 2000 i led the AZFL in sacks, i also coached for half a season in 2001...i may have the years wrong. I played one year for the Mesa Cowboys and three years for the Deer Valley Seminioles before "retiring". Good, fun league!

[skillz97]

Rocky Long had just finished his first year as defensive coordinator at Oregon State in 1991 and he knew he had to come up quickly with something different for the Beavers to be competitive.

Oregon State was a perennial candidate for the Bottom Ten as one of the nation's worst Division I college football teams. The Beavers had just finished another 1-10 campaign under Jerry Pettibone which saw OSU lose by whopping scores -- 58-6 to Washington, 55-7 to Washington State and 44-7 to UCLA.

"We played a 4-3 defense that year," Long said, "and we got smoked."

So with Pettibone's blessing, Long and his defense staff took a trip the following spring to Mississippi State to meet with Joe Lee Dunn, a master of blitzing defenses who had been New Mexico's defensive coordinator in 1980 when Long was the secondary coach.

Long brought many of Dunn's blitzing concepts back with him to Corvallis. He and his staff, which included current Lobos defensive coordinator Osia Lewis and Ball State head coach Brady Hoke, spent long hours in an old storage room nicknamed "The Dungeon" in the basement of famed Gill Coliseum coming up with what is now commonly referred to as the 3-3-5 defense.

What the Beavers didn't have in talent they more than made up by causing havoc with Long's then uncoventional stunting, blitz-from-all-angles defense. Oregon State finished ranked in the Top 20 in the nation defensively twice in the next four years and Long was eventually lured away to become defensive coordinator at UCLA.

In Long's second year in Westwood, the Bruins ranked 15th nationally in both rush defense and pass efficiency defense. They finished second in the nation in turnover margin. That helped land Long, a former starting quarterback at New Mexico in the late 1960s, the head coaching job in Albuquerque in 1998.

The Lobos have been ranked among the nation's top 30 defenses in each of the last three years. They enter Saturday night's game against UNLV ranked sixth in the nation in rushing defense (74.9 yards per game) and 23rd in the nation in scoring defense (18.6 ppg).

And perhaps not so surprisingly, Long's 3-3-5 defense, once viewed as too risky and unorthodox by many coaches, is now being adapted by a number of schools across the nation, including UNLV. In fact, four schools in the Mountain West Conference alone --- New Mexico, UNLV, Air Force and BYU --- run some form of the 3-3-5.

"It used to be that we were the only ones in the conference to run it which was a big advantage then," Long said. "It's kind of like Air Force running the option in our conference. They're the only ones who do it, which makes it tougher to prepare for in a week. But now that so many more teams are studying and running (the 3-3-5), I don't think there is as big an advantage as there once was for us."

BYU last spring paid big money to hire Long protege Bronco Mendenhall away from New Mexico to install the 3-3-5 in Provo this season. The Cougars rank 17th in the nation in total defense allowing just 302.6 yards per game and are second only to New Mexico in the Mountain West Conference in rushing defense.

"They even hand signal in the plays the same way," Long said. "I can watch their games on television and tell what coverages they're using."

"It's been a very good defense," UNLV coach John Robinson said. "They're very aggressive. It's in the mold of the eight-man front teams in the NFL that are going to press you and force you to make errors and try to beat you in the passing game by making you throw fast so that you can't get them deep."

Although there are only three down linemen in Long's scheme, Robinson said the concept has similarities to the famed "46" defense that the Chicago Bears used to win a Super Bowl almost 20 years ago.

"I don't think there's any question about that," Robinson said. "It's not the '46' defense they're playing but the concept of coming on you and outnumbering you is the same."

Long agrees.

"There are a lot of similarities other than the fact the Bears had a four man front," he said.

West Virginia, South Carolina and Wake Forest are among the other schools in the nation who have picked up Long's defense.

"Coaches are great imitators," Long said. "If they think something will work, they'll copy it."

It's too bad Long didn't patent the 3-3-5.

"I don't see it like that," Long said. "Joe Lee Dunn (now an assistant at Memphis) did a lot of the things I first saw. He was one of the pioneers of it. Then we started to develop our own strain of it."

It's a strain that continues to gain in popularity among college coaches.

[mad_bomber]

Great article Skillz! There are many ways you can go about using the 3-3 defense. Joe Lee Dunn is a blitzer through and through. The 3-3-5 is a great defense to run at the collegiate and high school levelsl. Not only does it allow you to use smaller, quicker players but the mental games you can play against offenses is unlimited. The basic 3-3-5 defense is similar to the 5-3. With the stemming that you can do, you can make it look like any type of defensive scheme; 4-4, 4-3, 4-2-5, 5-3, 6-2, etc. This defense allows you to be flexible with any type of offensive attack you might see.

Here are the teams that will feature the 3-3 defense as their base defensive system this season.

Memphis
West Virginia
Tulsa
BYU
New Mexico
UNLV
Air Force
La Tech

[kbell97]

I would like to use the 30 stack adj. from 3-4 and 3-3-5. I do need more practice with this defense and pretty much use mostly 30 stack 75% of the time when I play. I just love all of the different ways you can disguise your defense with it.

[Farmer]

3-3-5 & 4-2-5

[mad_bomber]

That 4-2-5 does have my curiousity as well. If any of you have seen Southern Miss play they use both the 3-3-5 and 4-2-5 defense.

[blackpowdereer]

I am partial to the 3-3-5 stack. I am a West Virginia Mountaineers fan...and Rich Rod is a master at that defense. It's a bend don't break defense....not a lot of sacks...but a ton of Int. the 'EERS didn't have a lot of meat on the Dline Last year...so they got burned a few times....(Maryland owned us)....this year they have some horses on the line and some studs in the backfield (PacMan Jones)...and the 3-3-5 will be an awesome defense for them this year!

[mad_bomber]

WV shut down Va Tech while using the 3-3-5. For whatever reason they don't seem to matchup against Maryland.

[blackpowdereer]

Maryland's QB....Scotty McBrien spent a year at WVU before transferring to Maryland....He saw and studied WVU's playbook...and I'm sure the Friedgan benifitted from that.....but Scotty graduated....and they lost some people on D....so this year I think the jinx will be broken....

/keeping my fingers crossed hehehehe

[mad_bomber]

What do you think about Rich Rod's offense? It seems like they've been getting further and further away from the spread. I saw them use quite a bit of I formation and other power sets last season. They do use the two back three receiver gun quite a bit though.

[blackpowdereer]

Originally posted by mad_bomber
What do you think about Rich Rod's offense? It seems like they've been getting further and further away from the spread. I saw them use quite a bit of I formation and other power sets last season. They do use the two back three receiver gun quite a bit though.

He had to adapt the spread to account for the type of players he had....WVU is a run first type school....and Don Nehlen left a running type player when he left.....RichRod simply went from the passing spread...to the running spread....until he got some players that would fit his scheme.
He has those players now.....
Rasheed Marshall is a 4th year QB that knows the system....he is fast (4.32) and has a good arm.... he only needs about 400 yards this year to surpass Michael Vick in the Big East with QB rushing yards. He has a veteran Oline....that will be rated in the top 5 this year.....and another in a long line of Powerbacks in KayJay Harris....he has good hands....and is a fast and powerful back.....the REAL stars this year will be the recievers....the country knows about Chris Henry....4.3 speed and GREAT hands....6'4"....he will be an All American....he is complimented by Eddie Jackson...from Washington....6'4"....good hands and powerful....he will force the Defenses to cover him....leaving Henry in single coverage....also...Miquelle Henderson...6'3" 5th year senior...coming off an injury last year...fast..4.4 speed and great hands....and he knows the system.....several others....in the recieving corp.....yea...WVU will be loaded Offensively this year....Look for a LOT more Power and Speed options that allow Marshall to showcase his running ability. His short yardage passing will be improved and he will be able to read the defenses much better this year with the "wall" in front of him....

Defensively they will be better than last year....the 3-3-5 was used to shore up a lack of Dline power and speed.....this year it will be used to highlight Joe Sykes...a Monster DE....fast and powerful in the Canute Curtis mold....he will terrorize QB's....LB's will miss Grant Wiley....but we have several quick and savvy LB's to take up the slack....Adam Lenhort will be a star at MLB.....and then we have PacMan Jones....he's the feisty CB that punched Winslow(I'm a soldier) when we played Miami last year....he has Attitude with a capitol A....and he backs it up on the field with GREAT corner ability....the other side is Jamal Addue...he is back from an injury last year and will be as good or better than PacMan....he is cool and calm...and fast as or faster than PacMan. Yea....WVU is gonna win the Big East....and go to a BCS bowl game....possibly to the Orange Bowl....and Miami....that would be sweet....a chance to avenge the last second loss last year with a good old fashioned butt whipping of Miami...and the National Championship to boot. hehehe watch the flame war now LOL

[mad_bomber]

I noticed Athlon's preseason magazine has them ranked 5th. I have to admit I was surprised by that. It sounds like they'll be a tough out for the Big East to deal with. Your right I don't see anyone in the Big East beating them. Boston College and Pittsburgh are solid teams, but WVU should be able to hold their own against either.

[mgamcbro]

4-2-5 for me sounds good

[maddenbowl62]

wats the difference between the 4-2-5 and nickel.

[skillz97]

The 4-2-5 is similiar to the 44 or any eight-man front defense, it gives you a cover 3 shell but replaces the two outside LB's with Saftey type players, to combat spread type offense, the thinking is that with a true 44 you would have a mismatch when the lb's have to walk out and cover slot wr's, as opposed to a little better match up with safteys covering slot wr's.

In the nickel you will see that front based out of a cover two shell, with only one saftey or corner walked bown in to the box, it will still be a 7 man front but still allows the flexibility of getting a better matchup vs spread type offenses.

[mad_bomber]

The 4-2-5 defense as played in college and high school football is intended to be an eight man front defense along the lines of the 4-4. The primary difference between the 4-2-5 and 4-4 defense is that you're replacing the two outside linebackers in the 4-4 with strong safety type players, thus you're able to defend passing formations much better as you have five defensive backs in the game. The two strong safeties also allows the defense to easily get into multiple eight man fronts if they so desired.

Technically you could call it a nickel defense since it's using five defensive backs on the field. The secondary consists of two cornerbacks, one free safety, and two strong safety types who'll usually play closer to the line of scrimmage as linebackers. When mentioning a base nickel defense you're usually referring to a defense with three cornerbacks and two safeties.

Here's a diagram for one of the new 4-2-5 defensive plays that will be in NCAA 2005.

[Warologist]

If your in a pass happy conference like the SEC, not using the 4-2-5 or 3-3-5 would be suicide. However, Big 10 teams probably are looking at 40. I personally plan to use the 4-2-5.

[mad_bomber]

You guys are going to love the blitz packages you can put together with 4-2-5 3-3-5 defenses. The zone blitze schemes are down right nasty. I played Washington on Heisman default and I faced a third and five situation. I call Ace Slot Slants. Something easy I figure to get the first down yardage. The Huskies call a zone blitz from the 4-2-5 that caught me totally off guard. The defensive ends dropped into coverage on the side where I wanted to throw the slant. While I'm trying to decipher what's going on with the defense, Wham! My quarterback gets nailed by the blitzing linebackers. I actually feel like the cpu is beating me because of the schemes it's using. I'm not getting that sense of playing against a super human team. They are doing a very good job of mixing their coverages against my spread offense.

[TrojanNole]

MAN....I cant wait for the filmroom...No, I cant wait for the game!!! No wait, I cant wait for the filmroom...Ahh crap...I'll just have to wait.

[BuckeyesTHEGAME]

I'll be using a variation of OSU's BBDB style. I like to play quite a bit of zone defense, mainly cover 3 with some cover 2 and 4 thrown in. Every once in a while I'll throw a blitz in there just to keep them honest.

The way I look at it is, if the offense can drive 12 plays and score, they deserve their points because my defense didn't do its job. There is NOTHING I hate more than giving up a big play.

Plus, there's a bonus to using the various zone coverages. When you play a human opponent, it can really confuse them and force turnovers/bad throws.

Let's say you play cover 3 on first down for the entire first quarter or so. I mean every single 1st down, you come out in some variation of C3. Your opponents gets comfortable with what they're seeing so they'll start to throw in the same area several times since it's always open. That's when you have them. After they've completed a few passes there, that will be where they look to throw until you stop it. When you switch to the zone that covers the area they've been exploiting, they'll usually fire the ball into the facemask of a linebacker/db and odds are, it will be your ball 1st and 10.

Then you can look at your friend, smile, and tell him how you just outsmarted him. :D

[CrazyOldGuy]

I love Joe Lee Dunn, so I'll probably tinker with a lot of 3-3-5 although lately in 2k4 I've really been working on using the goalline all over the field with using 2 dl,3 lbs(in a mlb, and de positions) and 6 dbs switching back and forth between goaline blitz with corners going man to man and Dime LB spy... a bit cheezy for the online guys but I only play the cpu!

:o