Chomppig's Flexbone

[Chomppig]

Firstly, thanks Chomppig and DRM for all the info you guys provide! The props are long overdue. I think I'm absolutely dedicated to this thread and I'm trying feverishly to try and get this option offense down correctly.

I have so many questions, but I don't want to bog you guys down between all the great info you're been able to post, but something that's hopefully quick:

• What systems are you guys playing on?
• What sliders are you using?
• What PB do you use, Navy?

I play on the 360 and when practicing (or playing CPU) with this offense, it seems like I constantly get tackled in the backfield, many times before I can even read the defense or make a safe pitch. When trying to run to the outside it's like I can never get to the edge before getting tackled despite the ability of my RBs. I've tried line shifts, no speed burst, everything I can think of...what am I missing?

I'm hellbent on learning this offense. Because like you DRM, I've tried the "Spread" and Pro-Style stuff but I take too many sacks and throw WAY too many picks, and after reading your last post on your game with Clemson I'm even more of a believer.

Any help you guys can provide would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks guys for listening and keep up the good work!

I too am on CG. The bone works much better on that system. Its a bit incomplete on NG as just about all you can do is option plays. I ran with Navy for years but in 09 I'm using GT. GT has a Wishbone and Power-I in it as well. It also has Wishbone-Tight as a "hidden formation". I guess thats what you call it. I have switched out Power-I with the third Wishbone formation so I can have an all flex/wishbone playbook. I normally play on AA but have switched to Heisman and I'm loving it. So far I havn't had to adjust sliders yet.

[Chomppig]

Chomppig- I never really thought of it that way, and I see that its like the pin & pull stretch like the colts run. As far as zone blocking goes I prefer the Denver ZBS as there's no pulling and everyone just works doubles blocking down to get movement on the DL. Thats why I instantly thought of the Lombardi power sweep because you have the guard pulling and a WB sealing off the OLB and the FB and G create an alley to run the ball in.

However you look at it its one of the best designed plays in the PB. It's nearly overtaken the option as my base play.

Yeah I love the Denver Zone block running scheme. It was fun to watch here when Atlanta was using it. Thats usually what I run if I'm not doing an option offense. I would love to be able to do a zone blocking/option offense. I know the WB around isn't blocked like a zone play but the way the blocks open up, sometimes on the inside and sometimes on the outside, it feels like a zone play.

[DRM]

Well it is blocked almost the same as the Indy pin & pull scheme, atleast as close as we have in the video game world as of now. So I can see where you're coming from in calling it a OZ play.

Well I'm in a dogfight with Rutgers right now, they have been in the 46 for most of the game and I wasn't prepared for it. My offense is failing and my QB is hurt and its looking like my undersized defense is not gonna hold up. I'm probably gonna lose this one but do you have any thoughts on attacking a 46 alignment in case I run into this again? I let them get me out of my game for one thing but I just can't find any success against it.

[Chomppig]

Well it is blocked almost the same as the Indy pin & pull scheme, atleast as close as we have in the video game world as of now. So I can see where you're coming from in calling it a OZ play.

Well I'm in a dogfight with Rutgers right now, they have been in the 46 for most of the game and I wasn't prepared for it. My offense is failing and my QB is hurt and its looking like my undersized defense is not gonna hold up. I'm probably gonna lose this one but do you have any thoughts on attacking a 46 alignment in case I run into this again? I let them get me out of my game for one thing but I just can't find any success against it.

I havn't played against it in 09 yet. In 08 I had some success against it with Tr option Rev. I ran it to the D's weakside. This play will leave the LB unblocked. If he comes in, give to the FB. If he stays at home then you can either keep or pitch. Also WB corners is another good play agianst it. Make sure the WB that is going in motion is going to the D's weakside. That will force the weakside LB to cover him or the WB thas running the corner route.

Thats all I can think of right now. Hope that helps.

[DRM]

Well I won 28-24 but it wasn't pretty. I had no answer for the 46 from the flexbone, gonna have to hit the practice field on that one. But the Power I, and wishbone saved my ***, along with a couple timely big plays by my linebackers.

But there has to be a way to run the flex against the 46, I'm gonna try out the plays you mentioned and work on this before I run into it again. Can't count on my linebackers to bail me out everytime a defense throws a curveball at me

[Chomppig]

Well I won 28-24 but it wasn't pretty. I had no answer for the 46 from the flexbone, gonna have to hit the practice field on that one. But the Power I, and wishbone saved my ***, along with a couple timely big plays by my linebackers.

But there has to be a way to run the flex against the 46, I'm gonna try out the plays you mentioned and work on this before I run into it again. Can't count on my linebackers to bail me out everytime a defense throws a curveball at me

lol, I it found hard to run to the outside against the 46 but done well with dives. Also short passing works good too. Remeber it was the west coast offense that had alot to do with the downfall of the 46 in the NFL. Short and quick routes kill heavy blitzing. Another play I just remembered I like to use is WB flats. Hot routing the WR to slants makes a good combo and easy to read. Also hot routing the WBs to hitch routes works great for me against a lot of defenses not just the 46.

[old_school]

Chomppig,
Being a long time advocate of the option attack I felt compelled to join in with your breakdown on the flexbone. I think that the greater understanding football fans have with the nuances of the offense, the more it will be embraced and perhaps, regain it's once former popularity.
I wanted to clarify some terms you used, respectfully.
The "mid-line" is not a triple option play. It is a double option between the FB and QB only. The FB track is straight up the centers butt. What you described as the mid-line is the "inside veer".
Keep in mind that Wishbone teams have gigantic splits. The center guard split is about 3-4 feet and the guard tackle split is 5 feet. Ideally, wishbone teams want the 5 technique ( DE ) to become the Dive read, who is left unblocked. This was usually the case because back in the day, most teams ran the 5-2 vs the wishbone. As more and more teams switched to even fronts, it became harder to run because the guards had a diffuculty blocking the 3 technique (DT) one on one. This player could penetrate and blow the whole thing up before it developed.
This was when AFA introduced the midline option. As I said, the FB track is directly over the football. The 3 technique is left unblocked and will usually tackle the FB, thus eliminating himself. What happens next is what makes the play unique. Instead of releasing to block up on a LB, the OT kicks his man (DE) out. The PLAYside slot, who goes in motion the opposite direction, blasts through the gap created by the OT kicking out, and the DT collapsing on the FB dive, and blocks the ILB. The QB pulls the ball as the FB is getting tackled and cuts up into the seam behind the Slotback.
Teams are better at defending it these days but in the late 80's to mid 90's AFA just gouged the heart out of defenses with this play ( which lame announcers always called the "QB duck" play).
Also, the outside veer, made famous by houston hits outside the OT. The dive back lines up directly behind he OT. Vs the 5-2 the TE would double down on the 5 technique and the 9 technique, lined up outside the TE, would become the Dive read and is unblocked.
You may or may not know, but De LaSalle amassed it's incredible win streak running the Outside Veer and still runs it.
Obviously, EA has no grasp of the Dive read concept and this info is of no use in regard to running option plays in NCAA video games, but just for the love of it, I thought I'd share.
O.S.

[Chomppig]

Chomppig,
Being a long time advocate of the option attack I felt compelled to join in with your breakdown on the flexbone. I think that the greater understanding football fans have with the nuances of the offense, the more it will be embraced and perhaps, regain it's once former popularity.
I wanted to clarify some terms you used, respectfully.
The "mid-line" is not a triple option play. It is a double option between the FB and QB only. The FB track is straight up the centers butt. What you described as the mid-line is the "inside veer".
Keep in mind that Wishbone teams have gigantic splits. The center guard split is about 3-4 feet and the guard tackle split is 5 feet. Ideally, wishbone teams want the 5 technique ( DE ) to become the Dive read, who is left unblocked. This was usually the case because back in the day, most teams ran the 5-2 vs the wishbone. As more and more teams switched to even fronts, it became harder to run because the guards had a diffuculty blocking the 3 technique (DT) one on one. This player could penetrate and blow the whole thing up before it developed.
This was when AFA introduced the midline option. As I said, the FB track is directly over the football. The 3 technique is left unblocked and will usually tackle the FB, thus eliminating himself. What happens next is what makes the play unique. Instead of releasing to block up on a LB, the OT kicks his man (DE) out. The PLAYside slot, who goes in motion the opposite direction, blasts through the gap created by the OT kicking out, and the DT collapsing on the FB dive, and blocks the ILB. The QB pulls the ball as the FB is getting tackled and cuts up into the seam behind the Slotback.
Teams are better at defending it these days but in the late 80's to mid 90's AFA just gouged the heart out of defenses with this play ( which lame announcers always called the "QB duck" play).
Also, the outside veer, made famous by houston hits outside the OT. The dive back lines up directly behind he OT. Vs the 5-2 the TE would double down on the 5 technique and the 9 technique, lined up outside the TE, would become the Dive read and is unblocked.
You may or may not know, but De LaSalle amassed it's incredible win streak running the Outside Veer and still runs it.
Obviously, EA has no grasp of the Dive read concept and this info is of no use in regard to running option plays in NCAA video games, but just for the love of it, I thought I'd share.
O.S.

Thanks for the corrections. I had a feeling I might have discribed the Mid-line wrong. When I was researching for this thread, I came across some sites that discribed the Mid-line as a triple option and others that discribed it the same way you did. One site discribed exactly what you did except they called the play a mid-line Iso. I think thats were I got confused. I prolly go back and change some of my terms I used. Thanks for the breakdown.

I'd love it if EA would put an OS veer in the game. Then we'd have all defensive fronts covered. And I followed De La Selle a lot during their streak. What was it like 11 years unbeaten? And all they really ran was the OSV, a counter option, a option pass and maybe one or two others plays and that was it lol.

[old_school]

Chomppig,
Yes, that's something annoying with football- the inconsistency with terminology. I'm still trying to figure out what exactly the "spread" is. A while back if you lined up in one back and stretched the field horizontally by formation and vertically with the passing game....that was a spread offense. Now, I don't know, as long as it sort of looks like U. Meyer's deal, it's the "spread"?
Anyway, back to the option. I really hope that GT will put it back on the map. I can't see any reason why they won't. AFA and Navy consistently put points on the board vs superior talent for many years. With the talent available at GT, speed in particular, it should be successful. And, if so more colleges with follow suit, they always do. Maybe at this point we will see more dramatic development with the triple option by EA. They have made some subtle changes in over the years, like adding the auto-short motion, but the whole dive read concept is foreign to them, as it is to most people. I'm always amused by game announcers who say, "man that was a great fake to the FB"....when actually it was a read by the QB who pulled the ball because the dive man took the FB.
I doubt we will ever see the Outside Veer though. It's alive and well at the H.S. level, but I don't expect to see it in the college ranks, but you never know?
O.S.

[Chomppig]

Chomppig,
Yes, that's something annoying with football- the inconsistency with terminology. I'm still trying to figure out what exactly the "spread" is. A while back if you lined up in one back and stretched the field horizontally by formation and vertically with the passing game....that was a spread offense. Now, I don't know, as long as it sort of looks like U. Meyer's deal, it's the "spread"?
Anyway, back to the option. I really hope that GT will put it back on the map. I can't see any reason why they won't. AFA and Navy consistently put points on the board vs superior talent for many years. With the talent available at GT, speed in particular, it should be successful. And, if so more colleges with follow suit, they always do. Maybe at this point we will see more dramatic development with the triple option by EA. They have made some subtle changes in over the years, like adding the auto-short motion, but the whole dive read concept is foreign to them, as it is to most people. I'm always amused by game announcers who say, "man that was a great fake to the FB"....when actually it was a read by the QB who pulled the ball because the dive man took the FB.
I doubt we will ever see the Outside Veer though. It's alive and well at the H.S. level, but I don't expect to see it in the college ranks, but you never know?
O.S.

lol yeah, Its seems like I've heard atleast 4 or 5 different offenses refered to as the "spread". I think its announcers and media ppl for the most part that don't know the difference so they just generalize.

I remember in the old ps1 days they had a triple option play from the split-backs formation. I can't remember if the RB's track went outside the OT or not (prolly not knmowing EA) but it was as close as NCAA has gotton to an OSV. They also had a play editor and a shovel pass form the flexbone that actually worked.

[old_school]

lol yeah, Its seems like I've heard atleast 4 or 5 different offenses refered to as the "spread". I think its announcers and media ppl for the most part that don't know the difference so they just generalize.

I remember in the old ps1 days they had a triple option play from the split-backs formation. I can't remember if the RB's track went outside the OT or not (prolly not knmowing EA) but it was as close as NCAA has gotton to an OSV. They also had a play editor and a shovel pass form the flexbone that actually worked.

I sort of remember that too, the details are foggy except that I never used the play. I also remember the shovel pass, but I never used it either, I think I figured it wouldn't work, like reverses....automatic yardage loss.
As for the play editor, any idea why EA won't put that in? If they could do it on the puny PS1 certainly they could program one with the superior hardware. My theory is that maybe too many people will spend their time tweaking plays rather than playing online??
O.S.

[DRM]

Chomppig,
Being a long time advocate of the option attack I felt compelled to join in with your breakdown on the flexbone. I think that the greater understanding football fans have with the nuances of the offense, the more it will be embraced and perhaps, regain it's once former popularity.
I wanted to clarify some terms you used, respectfully.
The "mid-line" is not a triple option play. It is a double option between the FB and QB only. The FB track is straight up the centers butt. What you described as the mid-line is the "inside veer".
Keep in mind that Wishbone teams have gigantic splits. The center guard split is about 3-4 feet and the guard tackle split is 5 feet. Ideally, wishbone teams want the 5 technique ( DE ) to become the Dive read, who is left unblocked. This was usually the case because back in the day, most teams ran the 5-2 vs the wishbone. As more and more teams switched to even fronts, it became harder to run because the guards had a diffuculty blocking the 3 technique (DT) one on one. This player could penetrate and blow the whole thing up before it developed.
This was when AFA introduced the midline option. As I said, the FB track is directly over the football. The 3 technique is left unblocked and will usually tackle the FB, thus eliminating himself. What happens next is what makes the play unique. Instead of releasing to block up on a LB, the OT kicks his man (DE) out. The PLAYside slot, who goes in motion the opposite direction, blasts through the gap created by the OT kicking out, and the DT collapsing on the FB dive, and blocks the ILB. The QB pulls the ball as the FB is getting tackled and cuts up into the seam behind the Slotback.
Teams are better at defending it these days but in the late 80's to mid 90's AFA just gouged the heart out of defenses with this play ( which lame announcers always called the "QB duck" play).
Also, the outside veer, made famous by houston hits outside the OT. The dive back lines up directly behind he OT. Vs the 5-2 the TE would double down on the 5 technique and the 9 technique, lined up outside the TE, would become the Dive read and is unblocked.
You may or may not know, but De LaSalle amassed it's incredible win streak running the Outside Veer and still runs it.
Obviously, EA has no grasp of the Dive read concept and this info is of no use in regard to running option plays in NCAA video games, but just for the love of it, I thought I'd share.
O.S.

Just to clarify your corrections. All of this pertains to the flexbone as its the only triple option offense aside from Urban Meyers shotgun version that is still relevant outside of the HS ranks. If you know how to teach you can run anything in the HS game and be successful.

Inside Veer - is ran at the 3 tech with the dive read usually being the next defender outside the 3 tech.

Outside Veer - the FB's aiming point is the inside hip of the PST.

Midline ISO - is a dive/keep option with the FB's path being right up the middle of the center with the dive read being the 3 tech. if the 3 tech attacks the FB the QB keeps and follows the HB through the hole.

Midline Triple - Same as ISO except the QB continues on to a pitch read

that is straight from the 1998 AFA playbook.

I have given up on EA getting accurate plays and terminology so I just use their terminology and run the plays in practice to find out how THEY intended the play to be run.

Triple Option - The FB's path is behind the guard - closest to IV

Triple Option Str - FB's path is the A gap - closest to Midline Triple

Triple Option Ctr - is outside hip of the guard - closest to OV

trust me you will go insane trying to equate the plays they have created to their real life counterparts, and that pretty much goes for any offensive scheme.

[Chomppig]

Just to clarify your corrections. All of this pertains to the flexbone as its the only triple option offense aside from Urban Meyers shotgun version that is still relevant outside of the HS ranks. If you know how to teach you can run anything in the HS game and be successful.

Inside Veer - is ran at the 3 tech with the dive read usually being the next defender outside the 3 tech.

Outside Veer - the FB's aiming point is the inside hip of the PST.

Midline ISO - is a dive/keep option with the FB's path being right up the middle of the center with the dive read being the 3 tech. if the 3 tech attacks the FB the QB keeps and follows the HB through the hole.

Midline Triple - Same as ISO except the QB continues on to a pitch read

that is straight from the 1998 AFA playbook.

I have given up on EA getting accurate plays and terminology so I just use their terminology and run the plays in practice to find out how THEY intended the play to be run.

Triple Option - The FB's path is behind the guard - closest to IV

Triple Option Str - FB's path is the A gap - closest to Midline Triple

Triple Option Ctr - is outside hip of the guard - closest to OV

trust me you will go insane trying to equate the plays they have created to their real life counterparts, and that pretty much goes for any offensive scheme.

I thought that there was some kind of mid-line form of triple option. But as Old School said, I was getting confused with all the terminalogy. For the sake of sanity I'm going to stop refering to these plays as mid-line, ISV and just call them what they are called in the game. I think that will be a lot less confusing. So when I post my next base play I'm just going to call it Triple option cntr instead of ISV. I'm writing it now and should have it up some time tonight.

[DRM]

I thought that there was some kind of mid-line form of triple option. But as Old School said, I was getting confused with all the terminalogy. For the sake of sanity I'm going to stop refering to these plays as mid-line, ISV and just call them what they are called in the game. I think that will be a lot less confusing. So when I post my next base play I'm just going to call it Triple option cntr instead of ISV. I'm writing it now and should have it up some time tonight.

Thats exactly what I was saying, you will drive yourself completely over the edge trying to do it any other way, I have tried....now I gotta go take my meds

[old_school]

I thought that there was some kind of mid-line form of triple option. But as Old School said, I was getting confused with all the terminalogy. For the sake of sanity I'm going to stop refering to these plays as mid-line, ISV and just call them what they are called in the game. I think that will be a lot less confusing. So when I post my next base play I'm just going to call it Triple option cntr instead of ISV. I'm writing it now and should have it up some time tonight.

Sorry, I didn't mean to give you the impression that there were no variations of the midline which employ a pitchman, as DRM accurately pointed out. The midline (iso) is still the base play upon which the variations are derived. In the case of AFA, when the run it with a pitchman, the play side wing still goes in motion and reverses direction on the snap, and then he arc blocks. I didn't know they (AFA) had names for these plays. When I learned about them they were called just 22 and 24. But, whatever. Who really cares anyway?
In regard to the game, I have been trying your strategy with the flexbone and it's been working pretty well. One thing that I discovered was that since the flexbone is balanced you can audible to flip the play and the players don't have to switch sides (which for me usually results in a delay penalty). This little thing has a huge effect because you can't change the direction of the play using the stick when there's short motion. It's really made the game more fun to play....thanks for the tips.
O.S.