The Run and Shoot for NCAA2k5..

[TrojanNole]

Yes I would like to know about those also, by the way I was plying in my league last night and had 5 sec to put the game away, I was in SG Spread and used motion and made my reads of zone, I checked off quickly to the Slot Screen from the SG Trips.

I got "6" boys on the screen and put the game away for good after being down 10-0 in the first quarter at one point. Thanks COG and Air Raid.

TrojanNole.

[CrazyOldGuy]

"So, I read your posts about the Slide, Choice, and Go routes and I was wondering what the basic philosophy of the routes were (i.e. flood, clear out, pick etc.). I want to try to create some pass plays that might work on Heisman level"

Ruiz00,

Good for you I'm glad you found some benefit here, and by all means if you can add to and tinker with these thoughts than all the more power to you and please come back and let us know what you find out.

Anyway to answer your questions, I guess if I were to write a mission statement for the passing part of the offense it would be:
"To create horizontal and vertical stretches on defense and put individual defenders in positions where whatever the choices they make, they will be the wrong ones."

The pass routes of Run and Shoot contain all the classic passing concepts: flooding, clearing out,isolating individual defenders and picks.

The slide concept comes from Ellison's old Gangster pass which had an almost mandatory pick route by the stationary inside slot.The choice attempts to isolate a corner. While the Go route attempts to overload/flood/ and clears out a zone, but can also act as a pick against a single defender.

Modern Run and Shoot coaches like Rob Spence and June Jones have shown a willingness to adapt many of the concepts of the more traditional passing schools of thought like the West Coast Offense.


Take a look at Pro Passing experts like Andy Coverdale and Dan Robinson and I see an infinite number of passing concepts that could be added quite nicely to the Run and Shoot.

With particularly the slot screen pass, you may find at heisman that the option is a better call, even when I play at lower levels the high snaps and slow release of some of my qbs can really screw that play up an IF my receiver catches (certainly not a given in 05 even if he is wide open) he can get hit for a loss. I've really begun to use more and more of Air Raid's suggestion of the double screen in the 5 wide, but hitting the backside WR and ignoring the slot.


Trojan,

Always good to hear of your exploits against the toughest of all opponents. Glad I help out!

[Air Raid]

....by the way I was plying in my league last night and had 5 sec to put the game away, I was in SG Spread and used motion and made my reads of zone, I checked off quickly to the Slot Screen from the SG Trips.

I got "6" boys on the screen and put the game away for good after being down 10-0 in the first quarter at one point. Thanks COG and Air Raid.

TrojanNole.

Glad we could help , but give yourself some credit for pulling it off...we can only give tips and suggestions...the execution is up to you

[RalphFridge]

I agree with the sentiments here that this was a great thread. I had been running like 80% option but I decided recently that I want to improve my passing game. After reading this thread and the contributions from it by everyone, my passing game has improved. I went from averaging 35% completion percentage and less than 100 yards a game, to over 220 yards and a 60% completion rate. I am currently using the Wake Forest playbook which gives me some shotgun looks that I can run a spread offense with as well as the Strong Twins, Flex Normal and the Maryland I so I can still run a lot of option.

With my improved passing game, I am tinkering with making the personel on the Flexbone interchangable with the SG Spread. I have recruited fast HBs with good hands and I will formation-sub them as slot receivers in the SG Spread. My FB is an 87 speed true-FB (not a converted HB) so he can interchange easily between being a HB in the SG formation to being the FB in the flex. I've red-shirted the two HBs so I won't implement it fully until next season but I am hopeful of the results. If I come out in the SG Spread and the defense shows Dime, then I can audible to the Flex and pound out the option. Conversely, if I come out in the flex and the D shows a 5-2, I can audible to the spread and throw the ball with confidence.

[TrojanNole]

I like the offenses we are starting to run in here. Most of us I can tell are running some of the same looks, SG Spread and Flexbone, I have being a great deal of of success passing the ball out of the flex also and revering back to the SG Spread and Trips formations.

It seems many of us, before COG's and Air Raid threads, we seem to kinda of run plays are random. Now, after ther're threads, I am read and reacting to the defense. I dont force my offense on them, I let them pick what they want and react to what they give me.

Alot of my failures on offense, are not because of they're defense or plyers not being open, but me failing to exacute on offense.

[Run and Shoot]

I too believe firmly in the 'shoot' "O". I do some of the things COG talks about
i.e. motion to determine man/zone etc. However, I use what I call a
'shoot no huddle". In addition, I use the back alot in the passing game. My routes are mainly designed to take advantage of any "D". True ther are times I take what the "D" gives.....but 80% of the time I'm attacking the "D" and exploiting mismatches (usually when Lb's are left to cover the wr's). I guess
my RnS philosophy is ......the no huddle can and should be used not only in a
'2minute' situation, but to gain and advantage on "D" at any given point in the game. When I do this reading the "D" just comes down to spotting the the uncovered wr or back. I mean someone is always open. Moreso when the
"D" is backpeddlling. If used correctly....the "shoot" can actually make a "D"
move from one side of the field to the other....from one side of the hash mark to the other.

[Air Raid]

Hey Run and Shoot...I like your tag ...4 wide is where it's at!!

...Anyway, I'm starting to explore into these strategies a little more COG....I've found some passing plays out of 5-Wide that have really opened up the passing game for me...let's just say that I used Hawaii last night and hung 70 on my buddy who was playing with Virgina Tech....I used nothing but SG Spread, Trips, Bunch and 5-Wide...it felt too good not to try it some more....Timmy Chang threw for 404 yards and 6 TDs...

[Fluff E Bunny]

Especially when they pick a man cover 2 and use a lineman to hover over the middle.

Any help would be apprecieated, Thanks.

Versus that I would suggest looking at SG bunch. I've noticed that vs man, there are at least two plays in the formation where one of the inside receivers runs and outside flair route (for lack of a better description). Versus man coverage, that guy usually has separation from his defender and you can pick up a few quick yards. No homeruns usually, but yards.

Zone takes it away normally, however.

[Run and Shoot]

Well i love this style of play and really enjoy putting big numbers up, but i have trouble when somebody manually controls somebody over the middle. Usually they take a lineman and just "patrol" the area, now i'll run to the vacated lineman if its 1st, 2nd, down or 3rd and short but when i have to pass most of them are right over the middle and it gives me trouble. Especially when they pick a man cover 2 and use a lineman to hover over the middle.

Any help would be apprecieated, Thanks.

I'm not sure what formation you use....but generally quick slants and deep slants work against the c2. If the lineman patrols the middle that's a mismatch. Have the slots (if you use the 'shoot') go short vertical down the seam. The key here is the quick hitter. The minute either slot clears the LOS
(read the "D" for jams at the line) hit em' quickly. Another option is the 'wall'.
Where you slant the wr's in and throw to the back flaring toward the sideline
of your choice. BTW.....almost 100% of plays are created.

[TnGolf22]

Vthok,

I think HFA is a great idea and makes the game fun, but again the execution is off. I can see players getting rattled or playing poorly but its not because "they can't hear the play". What's next GPA factor where anybody below 2.0 always blows their assingment???

Actually I think this is a great idea. Next year maybe tone down HFA a bit, but let GPA be a factor. You could give guys with the higer GPAs a higher awareness rating for instance. It happens in the real world, right(in general)? Peyton Manning was a good student off the field and for football studied film and stayed out of trouble on campus. On the other hand you had James Banks who couldn't stay out of trouble and wasn't stellar in the classroom (low GPA) and probably could have been our starting QB had he been more disciplined. GPA should be a factor in the number of disciplinary action required by coaches.

Sorry to get off track. This is a great thread which has really helped me improve my offense. My friend plays with Penn St and uses 5-2 defense which I have a hard time with. I can kill him with the option but it's no fun using the option all day. I'm going to try some SG Trips plays but anyone know some good formations against the 5-2?

THANKS FOR ALL YOUR GREAT POSTS!

[CrazyOldGuy]

the no huddle can and should be used not only in a
'2minute' situation, but to gain and advantage on "D" at any given point in the game. When I do this reading the "D" just comes down to spotting the the uncovered wr or back. I mean someone is always open. Moreso when the
"D" is backpeddlling.

This fall I read Gus Malzahn's book on the Hurry-Up No Huddle, where the goal is to get the ball snapped within 3-5 seconds after the officials mark it for play. Great stuff! If somewhat a little radical, Malzahn has no problem with a 75-68 score and says throw out the defensive stats! If you love the no huddle though its a great book.

Chef Al and Tn glad you enjoyed the thread!

[Run and Shoot]

IMO....another component of a good 'shoot' "O" is to have a mobile Qb. Of
course because of my over "O" philosophy I can use virtually any type of Qb
and have success. However, the mobile Qb, if you can get one, gives you a
tremendous advantage when it comes to putting pressure on the "D". In this
respect....my R&S philosophy is more in line with how Tiger Ellison wanted the
'shoot' to operate. Which would be allowing the Qb to throw on the move.

[TnGolf22]

Thanks a bunch for the info GettingAWN........

I practiced against the AI on Heisman (TN vs PSU). Shotgun Trips, HB direct, and HB Option Pass work fairly well, although mostly on runs. I beat the computer twice, once 17-3 and then 10-3. Defense on Heisman seems so quick it's hard to find people open. However if I analog blitz from the 4-3 PSU can't seem to get any kind of yardage hence the low scoring.

HB Direct gives me 5 yards but I usually have to motion a guy to the side my HB is running to otherwise I immediately get tackled. It is so hard to pass against the AI in Heisman. I-Formation Angles (i think) seems to work well because R1 gets open and I can usually get 7-10 yards after PSU starts defending against the run.

CrazyOldGuy's notes on running alternate SG Trips was VERY useful too. Feel free to pass any of this info on.....

Thanks again CrazyOldGuy and GettingAWN.

[TnGolf22]

Pre-snap I want to make sure the defense adjust to the strength of the formation, if they don't then I'll go with a slot screen to Y or run speed option to the trips side. If the cover everybody down then I want to take a look at the player who is going to take responsiblity for W. He will be our key.

Has anyone else tried this? I play Heisman vs. AI but don't play online (would like to eventually). In practice mode if the AI defense doesn't cover the trips side I can get great yardage (sometimes 15 yards) when I aubible to slot screen but practice and "play now" modes seem entirely different. In play now the defense seems so much better and I can barely get my tight end (or WR?) to even catch the ball on a slot screen pass. Anyone else having this problem? I think i'm going to have to start practicing in play now mode instead of practice since it's more realistic.

Friday's are slow for me which is why I'm sneaking online at work.

Great thread guys!

[MJD]

Run and Shoot-

You mentioned the Slide Wall play. I haven't tried it on NCAA. Does it work in the gaming world? I hadn't even thought of that. Do you only run it against man? What formation(s)? Do you motion the back?

Thanks,
MJD