The Run and Shoot for NCAA2k5..

[CrazyOldGuy]

...What teams do you like to use and why????.......

Air, the teams I use the most:

Hawai'i-rns of course
Portland State- where Mouse Davis got his start
Hofstra- Joe Gardi another great Run and Shooter

I try to avoid the power teams (Oklahoma,Miami,Ohio State,Michigan, USC) for more of challenge and cause I love the underdog......

[mad_bomber]

I'm really enjoying this thread!

[kbell97]

I have 3 seasons going on at once Air,

1. Penn St. - my all time fav. team, in year 3 with the lions, the linebackers Penn ST. has on this game have tremendous speed, I redshirted Dan Connor his first year and now he is a stud in my 3-3-5 base DE

2. Florida St. - I like the talent on this team, and figured what the hell, I am going to be a powerhouse for one season. This is my season on Heisman since they are so good on the game.

3. Temple - I am a Bobby Wallace fan( since his days at NOrth Alabama) he had a good recruiting class this year with Temple, and I predict he will get Temple over the hump soon.

[vthok]

COG,

I would think using all those hot routes/audibles in away games must be near impossible to get off in time.

How do you do it?

[TrojanNole]

AIR RAID, are u working on the next phase of the Run and Shoot thread? This is the best and educational thread I have ever read! Thanks and we'll be waiting!

[Air Raid]

Trojan-

I will add a little of my own thoughts on the Run & Shoot if you would like, however, COG has done one hell of a job with the descriptions so far!!! This thread is GREAT!

I will post my thoughts on the Power Spread today on that thread and then post some ideas here......

I like to use Hawaii as well....June Jones is an ICON to me! To have the best tournaround in NCAA history says something about your offense....

I just wish wide open passes were not dropped in this game! I would probably run the Run & Shoot exclusively, like I did in 2002 and 2003.....

[TrojanNole]

Yes, Please post whatever u like, I am currently trying to change my FSU team to a Run and Shoot, and played last night and got beat but I was mostly experimenting and trial and error for me.

This has been the greatest thread and I have printed everything out and am trying to implyment everything correctly.

So post away!

[CrazyOldGuy]

Balance to the run and shooter doesn't necessarily mean 50/50 run/pass!
So far we've talked about the choice and several of our trips routes but the Run and Shoot also attacks through balanced formations.

X...........LT.LG.C.RG.RT...............Z
.......W.........................Y
..................Q.S
<Backside......................Frontside>
As always I explain plays with the frontside always being to the right for brevity. These plays can be reversed and run to either side.


The four primary balanced routes I use are:
1. Streak
2. Switch
3. Smash
4. Flash

1.THE STREAK ROUTE:

The streak is one of the most basic routes in all of football.Vincent White who coached the Run and Shoot at Pacific with some guy name Walt Harris (Yes that Walt Harris) and at SMU, said he tried to run the streak at least 4 times a game if only to keep the defenses honest.

In N2k5, the best play for this route is the Hail Mary out of 4 wides. No adjustments are needed to run this route.


Reads for Streak:


Presnap: All of our automatic adjustments still apply.

Post Snap vs Coverage: Read the safeties to the corner or pick the best match up. Normally I read frontside to backside and then Run.

Post Snap vs. Blitz: If you expect blitz I wouldn't run it, however if you encounter blitz I try to hit the receiver who would normally be covered by the blitzer.

Alternative to the Streak... THE MOUSE DAVIS STREAK:
Mouse Davis used a streak where the backside receivers would read their defenders, if their defenders dropped the X and W would cut inside at about 10 yards and try to get in an open window between the dropping dbs and lbs. Unfortunately our receivers can't read in this game but we can hot our routes to have a decent route. Still using the Hail Mary 4 wide play.

Assignments for the Mouse Streak
X:Will be "hotted" to a IN or can be leave on his Streak
W:Will be "hotted" to a IN
Y: normal Streak
Z: normal Streak
S: Block

The Reads for the Mouse Streak:

Presnap: All of our adjustments to uncovered receivers still apply uncovered or ability to run.

Post Snap vs Coverage: We will start by reading Z to Y and see if we have anything breaking open. If they don't open we come back to W or X on his in. If they are all covered.. tuck and run.

Post Snap vs Blitz: Reverse the reads and go to W and X then to the Y and Z streaks if time is available.



2.THE SWITCH ROUTE:

The switch route comes to us from Mouse Davis. Its derivative of its powerful sister route the Streak (or Hail Mary play everyone is familiar with). For this play I use Shotgun Spread Slot Wheels but other plays are also viable including Flexbone Slot WR Middle. The Switch wants to force inside coverage players like LBS and Safeties to get in a mismatch with inside receivers who are traditionally some of the best receviers the Run and Shoot has.

Assigments for the Switch:

X:Leave on the the switch post
W:Leave on his switch streak
Y: "Hot" to a streak or a hook, the streak route tends to hold the saftey and the lb
Z: "Hot" to a hook
S: Block

The Reads for the Switch:

Pre Snap read: All of our adjustments to uncovered receivers still apply.

Post Snap vs Coverage: We read the front side Z hook to Y hook/streak so that we can allow the backside switch to develop. If those front side is not open, I look first to W and then to X. If you are good at reading safeties you may want to work the Y to X to the w trying to take advantage of the two deep or single on top safeties.

Post Snap Vs Blitz: Z's hook or W's streak which can break against Man coverage.


3.THE SMASH ROUTE:

The Smash route is another great route that nearly every team uses. From Shotgun Spread- HB GO we have a great route in 2k5 to duplicate this look. This is another route that needs no adjustment but I like to add a little run and shoot touch. Its a great route to run against two deep or man defenses.

Assigments for the Smash:

X: your choice leave the hook or hot to a streak or slant
W: Hot to a Slant
Y: Leave his corner route on
Z: "Hot" to a hook to or leave his hook to cross route on
S: Block

Pre Snap: All adjustments still apply, can we get a gimme uncovered or a run?

Post snap vs coverage: Read the db over Z, if he fades back hit z on his hook...or if you didn't hot him let him start on his cross. If the DB covers down Z try to hit Y on his corner route, if things look muddy come down to the W Slant out to the X or run the ball.

Post Snap vs blitz: Hook or slant, slant especially if the inside lb's bring the pressure.


4.THE FLASH ROUTE:

The flash route we get from Rob Spence who worked as an OC at Hofstra and under Mark Duffner at Maryland. Coach Spence is now the OC at Toldedo, and is recogonized as one of the best offensive minds in college football. A true innovator Coach Spence is one of the new run and shooters who is pushing the offense to the next level. The flash route also allows us to make our HB a receiveing threat as their is no need for him to block. This is another play to that we can get to through other selections but the best I have found is Shotgun Spread- WR Curls.

Assigments for the Flash:

X: leave his route on
W: leave his route on
Y: "Hot" to a slant
Z: leave his hook on
S: leave his flat on

Pre Snap: All adjustments still apply, can we get a gimme uncovered or a run? But we need to be aware of any pressure appearances from the backside is the W player in a potential blitz position? (Hugging the DE, aggressive stance)

Post Snap vs Coverage: The read is always Y on his slant keying the mlb if he drops or goes to the frontside we hit Y, if he sits then we move on to Z on his hook, if he is not open we go to S on his flat. You can go back side and red X to W, run or throw it .


Post Snap VS Blitz: If the pressure is coming from the backside (the guy who is over W?) then we want to go to w, otherwise we go to Y vs any pressure up the middle.

This would be a better route if only we could get S to SWING is route,we don't need him to run ot the flat right away. Alas no play editor for NCAA yet


Thanks to everyone for the many kind words and encouragement! Again I'll be posting a semi bibliography and credits,because I can't take credit for any of this stuff. I'd love to hear about the other systems out there so please don't let this intimidate anyone in anyway my way isn't the ONLY way... if you have an offense or a defense you are passionate about PLEASE POST IT!!!


NEXT POST: Putting the RUN in the Run and Shoot

[CrazyOldGuy]

COG,

I would think using all those hot routes/audibles in away games must be near impossible to get off in time.

How do you do it?

Vthok,

Great QUESTION!! I still have good plays without the hot routes.. not the routes I want but they still work. My balance routes especially work fine without adjustments. The routes I name here are suggestions, but you can get to many of them using other plays from other formations. Those plays may work better without any adjustments. I've been tinkering with what I call universal base plays that I can change into other ones through "hoting" or that will work fine by themselves. These would be plays that I can hot to 4 or 5 different plays or leave and still have minimum 2 different plays by simply motioning a receiver.

For example ace-spread slot cross
1. great crossing route by itself
2. can use as a "go" route by motioning the Y to the left

If I have enough of them I may post them.

Also we CAN'T be afraid to audible to a run, there's nothing wrong with picking up 4 or 5 yards on a run!

I played as Portland State at Florida and Tennesee, while the crowd noise slowed down the pace of my offense, when I doubled the Hot calls my receviers usually ran the correct adjustment.

Finally and this is not going to be a popular answer.

I turn off HFA. Why? THIS IS MY OPINION... its stupid..
If I were really running this offense I would have methods of changing these patterns or calling these plays without huddling and without crowd noise being a problem. These methods can be as complex as using wrist bands to holding up a fingers to make a signal. Tiger Ellison's pre snap signal for "Automatic Pass" was the WR playing with his face mask!

I think HFA is a great idea and makes the game fun, but again the execution is off. I can see players getting rattled or playing poorly but its not because "they can't hear the play". What's next GPA factor where anybody below 2.0 always blows their assingment???

Does EA know DEAF people play football? Does ea know deaf schools compete in football? .... ....Do their kids run the wrong play..do they have no system of audibles? I bet they don't and I bet they do have a system to changing their plays.

http://athletics.gallaudet.edu/Footb...ll_Archive.htm

In my away games with HFA on the only problem I ran into consistently was having to blow 2 time outs because my CENTER would not snap the ball. NOTE TO EA, silent snap counts have probably been around longer than the shotgun formation.

[vthok]

What formation/play you use to run it?

[TrojanNole]

I'm sorry CRAZYOLDGUY about not giving the proper credit due. I mistaking thought you were Air Raid and had thought he had started the thread. Very sorry on that mistake. But, Air Raid please post all your thoughts on the Run and Shoot, I dont want to take anything away from you either as all of you including Bomber have taught me so much on this offense.

[Air Raid]

Trojan-

Yep it was COG who got this one rolling, I helped with the Power Spread thread the most....but don't worry about it, COG has done an EXCELLENT job with this..... I too am a HUGE Run & Shoot fan in real life and have done some serious reading on the topic as well and what he has said here is true to form

I will post some other interesting facts about the Run & Shoot later today, as it seems like COG has done a great job with adapting the ideas to the game!!

The only thing I will add right now, is that you can take many of these routes and adjustments and apply them to the 5-wide sets and have success too...

[TrojanNole]

I love the idea of running the Run and Shoot offense, I am really trying to apply it to me by listening to all of you. But I noticed that the R-N-S used alot of hot routing. So, in the game with HFA how would I run the R-N-S againest this. Cause EA didnt put in hand signals for us.

Crazy, I have been using the SG Spread and using motion to create the matchup with the overload conept and running once I see 5 in the box as mentioned. My passing game as really improved using that strategy, before I was always looking downfield at the FS/SS, now I'm having better luck with the intermidate passing game with the R-N-S esploiting the weak side and also the middle of the field. Please keep the education coming.

By the way I'm using the R-N-S for the the abbrevation for RUN-AND-SHOOT if ya'll didnt know.

[Air Raid]

Here are some interesting facts about the R-N-S:

(1) Tiger Ellison's original R-N-S (not the Lonesome Pole Cat, but his original "Slot" formation) Had only ONE pass series and FOUR running series......

(2) Tiger also believed that if any team only left 5 in the box you should run the ball, and use EVERYBODY to do it (Power Spread anyone???)

(3) Tiger's offense in High School averaged about 1 TD every 10 plays or about 5 TDs a game.

(4) One of Mouse Davis's favorite quotes ("The only way to keep us from running is to allow us to pass.")

(5) The R-N-S causes a 30% reduction in mass (in the middle of the field) as the field is stretched horizontally by formation and vertically by speed (Again, a concept now used in modern day spread offenses)

(6) In 1989 Chuck Weatherspoon lead the nation w/ a 9.6 yards per carry average with the Houston Cougars, that is still an NCAA record...(I think??)

(7) The R-N-S also produced 5 different 1000 yard rushers in the NFL....

(8) One of the biggest myths about the R-N-S is that it is bad in the red zone.....well from 1992 to 1994 Atlanta and Houston were third and fourth in the NFL in Red Zone Efficiency and Detroit was #1 in 1990.....All of these teams ran the R-N-S!

(9) in 1995 the Atlanta Falcons were the first team in NFL history to have a 4000 yard passer a 1000 yard rusher and THREE 1000 yard recievers....who was the coach?????.....June Jones (Now with Hawaii)....

You can find more interesting things about the R-N-S in Joseph C. Mellor III's "Restart the Revolution" article...it is a great overview of the R-N-S....and I think a lot of these facts are in there.....

[CrazyOldGuy]

What formation/play you use to run it?

VTHOK...

Sorry for the misunderstanding and thank you for calling that to my attention!!

I use shotgun spread- slot wheels and flexone slot- wr middle primarily to duplicate the Switch route concept. I've corrected the post for future readers!!