Proof that Defenses in NCAA are Unrealistically Psychic

[rhombic21]

One of the major problems with NCAA is the way that defenders automatically switch guys in man coverage, when they have no business doing just that. For instance, if you call Curl Flats from Ace Slot against man coverages out of the 4-3 or 3-4, the FS or LB will switch with the CB, and the FS will gaurd the OUTSIDE WR on the curl pattern, while the CB takes the Slot WR on the flat route. Thus, but guys are essentially covered due to the switch, wheras in real life, the FS/LB would have to either come up and play the flat, or sit back to help on on the curl, which would leave one or the other open (assuming you timed the throw right and had an accurate QB).

But before you go saying that perhaps the defenders just recognized the routes, and therefore perhaps the switch isn't all that unrealistic, here's something that takes the cake.

Shotgun 2 Back Slot PA Corner. On this play, the primary WR (square) runs a corner route, the secondary WR (circle) runs a streak, the slot WR runs a Post, and the Fullback runs a delayed release route into the flat.

I was practicing this play against random Nickel defenses, when I noticed something. Every time the defense went with Man to Man defense, the Slot WR got matched up on either the SS or the MLB. I thought this was interesting because the Nickelback was supposed to be in man coverage on the Slot WR, while the MLB or SS should have been in man coverage on the FB. I was wondering why the FB was never open, even though his man should be one of the guys affected by the play action fake.

Then I noticed that the Nickelback was essentially switching with the MLB or SS, and was gaurding the FB.

Note that the FB runs a DELAY route, meaning that he doesn't go out on his pattern for several seconds. There is NO WAY that the Nickel Back should be able to know to switch and gaurd him, unless he KNOWS the play!!!

I propose that this phenomenon of "psychic" DB's is the major reason why the passing game is unGodly difficult, and why the only two routes that work with any consistency are crossing routes and deep streak routes. On those two routes, the WR simply beats his man physically, wheras on other routes (Posts, Curls, Outs, etc...) the play works because the CB is taken by suprise and is out of position momentarily. This rarely happens on NCAA, because the defense essentially knows the play prior to the snap of the ball.

Just one more thing to add to my list of problems with the REALISM of NCAA. I wish somebody would tell EA that there are ways to make the game more challenging, while also making it more realistic. That way we might get games where the AI doesn't have to "cheat" in order to have a fair chance.

Whoever was in charge of the pass defense AI on NCAA really dropped the ball (pun intended) this year. Just terrible EA, there's no other way to put it.

[seanmac]

Great post.

[Bronco]

Rhombic,

good post. CPU "spying" has always been a part of EA programming, it just depends to what degree. Excellent point with regard to the blue check release routes...of course, these aren't check release routes at all - all they are are glorified delay routes...the backs don't "check" anything; they simply block for two seconds and then release - no matter what. Obviously the CPU knows this, as it will always assign a man to cover him...but if you hot that player to block, the CPU somehow knows not to worry about him and will respond accordingly. If EA employed a real check release system like ESPN does, this problem would have to be removed. With ESPN, the backs will release immediately if their backer doesn't blitz, or; even better, they will stay and block for the entire play if their backer does come, which is what the protection scheme is supposed to do!

Other examples of CPU spying (either Madden or NCAA, depending):

- Standard running situation, CPU comes out in a base personnel package on offense (2RB/2WR/TE); you select "FG Man"...CPU will usually run the play...same scenario, but this time you select "FG Block" as your defense. Now, despite the fact that the CPU is in base personnel, it decides to audible and shift to a spread formation, most likely intending to throwing hot. How did it know to do this? The two defensive formations we called were identical, the only differences being one play called for a docile, all man coverage; the other an all out blitz. Somehow the CPU knows which one will stop the play, and audibles accordingly....the CPU will never audible out of it's play call when you've selected FG Man...but quite often when you've select FG Block.

And we're not supposed to notice this?

- We've all seen defenders break immediately to the trajectory of the ball once it's in the air, even when there is no possible way they could even see it. That's some serious awareness! x 2. This anomoly is priceless...I've actually seen defenders do things that Keanu Reeves would only dream about in the Matrix - I specifically remember a play where I had two crossing routes spaced 10 yards apart: WR 1 was crossing right in front of the QB at 10 yards from right to left, with a defender trailing him; WR 2 was crossing behind him in the same direction, roughly 10 yards behind, with another defender trailling him...since WR 1 is clearing out the middle for WR 2, I elect to throw to WR 2 behind the defender on WR 1. What happens? The defender assigned to WR 1 (in full stride) plants his foot, jumps backwards, reaches back and snags the ball with one hand. x3. Three eeks for that one. That one was so priceless, I had to watch it in slow mo...the defender who made the play actually jumped forward, then hovered backwards in mid air! Keep in mind, he was still facing in the original direction of WR 1 that he was pursuing (right to left).

Nice !

[mad_bomber]

I noticed some of these same issues the other day. Sometimes I wonder if the development team who worked on this game actually feel they did a good job with this latest version of NCAA Football? Personally I feel if you're going to release a game with game play flaws at least err on the side of the offense being juiced . The defenses reacting unrealistically to plays, receivers’ dropping passes, and the limitations on the playbooks are somewhat annoying.

[Razorbacker]

Here's another one I noticed.

When motioning a TE I noticed that the LB started moving as soon as I hit the direction pad. The TE raises up (and at this point you wouldn't know if he is going left across the formation, or right to the outside) and the LB immediately goes to where I intended for the TE to go. Creepy.

[Razorbacker]

One more thing and this is more super-human than psychic...

How about DBs and LBs who, while in coverage, can swat a pass away AND then have the agility and awareness to turn and TACKLE the receiver?

[BuckeyesTHEGAME]

One of my favorites is take a player with 97 or more speed and acceleration (LSU's receiving corps comes to mind) and use him on a punt return. Then, let the defense come at you full speed. When they get close, take off to the right or left. They will actually be able to stop, change directions, and beat you to the sidelines... even if they're a linebacker with speed in the high 70s.

EA gives the player with "the angle" entirely too much of a speed advantage.

Another thing, when you're running, the CPU doesn't react to the player. Oh no, forget that. It reacts to your stick IMMEDIATELY after you do something with it. I've always been able to use my stick and juke the CPU defenders (just ask Bronco ), but not this year. In real life football, the advantage someone like Darren Sproles has is his quick change of direction and acceleration ability. That split second it takes for the defender to react to what he does allows him to get by him (if it's one on one). That is not accurately reflected in this game.

[Farmer]

Here's another one I noticed.

When motioning a TE I noticed that the LB started moving as soon as I hit the direction pad. The TE raises up (and at this point you wouldn't know if he is going left across the formation, or right to the outside) and the LB immediately goes to where I intended for the TE to go. Creepy.

Hot dammit!!! I knew I wasn't crazy. Everytime I would motion my TE the LB assigned to him would beat him to the spot/side of the field that I was going to.


Has anyone else noticed this other stupid thing I keep having to deal with:
I call a defensive play, man to man cover 2 or man to man w/MLB spying, I notice that the offense is lined up differently than I expected ( ex. SG Trips ), I audible for a play flip where the responsibility for covering the HB would change from the SS to the FS and or change the direction of the D-Line and blitzing LB. Well the coverage responsibility changes but my inside DB now runs to the other side of the field and is positioned in the default Dime position!!! The cpu has burned me many times because of this BS manuver.

Or how about this one: Your opponent ( human or cpu ) calls a hurry up play, and one or more of your defenders are out of place. Either they're 20-30 yards down the field, or worse, still in the backfield!!! This pisses me off as it's now either a free 5 yards and reset of current down or a potentially big pass play for the offense.

I've said it before and I'll say it again.......... '04 was a great game. Sure it had it's flaws, but with a few minor tweaks to the game play ( '05's graphics,creat-a-sign, better offensive blocking AI, the addition of the "Big Hit", composure ratings, new dynasty additions and HFA) , most of the improvements should've come on the defensive side of the ball. But instead, they've messed up the PB's, screwed up the HFA ( which could've been a cool thing ) by making it totally unrealistic. How is it that when the crowd is amped up to the max, the offense can't audible, but the defense can?? Has anyone else noticed this?? I mean if it's that loud then don't you think both sides of the ball shouldn't be able to hear audibles effectively?? That right there in and of itself defies the laws of physics as well as modern medicine. They've made the defense seem superhuman/psychic ( going for the ball in flight even though they are not looking at the ball as it was being thrown ), don't get me wrong, Dynasty mode is still the shyt and to me the sole reason I haven't traded this puppy in towards credit for Madden. It's just that to me, the negatives far out weigh the positives, and that's the total reverse of last years game.

I still say NCAA 05 feels like a rushed product to me.



-Farmer

[LjSnUo]

I understand your anger at the d knowing the play before the snap. but when a nickel and a cb are on the field before the snap and in man-to-man they dont just stand there waiting for the ball to be snapped. nor does the LB and the FS/SS with the CB. Most times in a Man situation they will make a "Mix" call. a mix is where a cb is to take the whichever WR goes outside and the nick/lb/fs/ss takes the inside. it is not unrealistic.

[Bronco]

I understand your anger at the d knowing the play before the snap. but when a nickel and a cb are on the field before the snap and in man-to-man they dont just stand there waiting for the ball to be snapped. nor does the LB and the FS/SS with the CB. Most times in a Man situation they will make a "Mix" call. a mix is where a cb is to take the whichever WR goes outside and the nick/lb/fs/ss takes the inside. it is not unrealistic.

Dude, obviously banjo calls like that are quite common, but not nearly as common when it's predictable...were this the case, teams would site adjust BIG TIME and you'd have your #1 converting to a hitch n' go or a straight fly route...matched up with a Safety.

Defenses play this type of matchup coverages when in a quarters / cover 4, especially when they prefer to stay in base 4/3 or 3/4 personnel...or when they are facing compressed splits in bunch formations.

But if you are seeing the defense matchup in personnel wise, this tactic is far less common, as the offense could dictate the matchup very easily...any offensive coordinator would salivate knowing he could get his #1 coverage against a Safety or LB simply by running the slot to the flat.

Of course, the deep ball in this game is money anyway regardless of who is covering...

[mad_bomber]

Yep, Bronco hit the nail on the head. Usually a defense will use the "Banjo" when facing bunch formations where receivers are releasing at all sorts of angles. Now if the defense only did this against the bunch formations I'd have no problem with it. The other instances where you may see this type of switch is inside the redzone.