Federal Spending

[theanalogkid]

I understand all that, but it's more complex than "the Fed gives the banks money". There's some responsibility on the personal level as well. You know what would help the economy? Not letting entry-level bankers risk a trillion dollars on some contrived algebra specifically made to capitalize on failure. The discussion is always about auditing the fed or going to gold etc. That's not gonna solve any problems. If anything that would compound them at the moment. What you guys are advocating is changing the value of money, but that isn't going to help anything at the moment. We should probably figure out how to dig ourselves out of the hole before getting ahead of ourselves. If we get everything turned around, then I could see having a discussion about the Fed and the gold standard.

The Fed is more than than just a money printer, it's a moral hazard. If there was no 'lender of last resort' the level of risk the banks would take would be far less. The Fed is also a major contributor to the reckless spending of Congress because it monetizes debt so Congress can spend without an perceived consequences. It's far easier to steal wealth through inflation and blame private companies for price increases like the oil companies than it is to steal it explicitly through taxation and higher interest rates.

Does it make even the slightest bit of sense that the government can continue to spend that way it does and the interest rates don't even budge. You don't need a Nobel prize in economics to see the problem with this. Congress won't fix the problem until they are forced to and even then, they'll try to muddle through it.

[Swift456]

The Fed is more than than just a money printer, it's a moral hazard. If there was no 'lender of last resort' the level of risk the banks would take would be far less. The Fed is also a major contributor to the reckless spending of Congress because it monetizes debt so Congress can spend without an perceived consequences. It's far easier to steal wealth through inflation and blame private companies for price increases like the oil companies than it is to steal it explicitly through taxation and higher interest rates.

Does it make even the slightest bit of sense that the government can continue to spend that way it does and the interest rates don't even budge. You don't need a Nobel prize in economics to see the problem with this. Congress won't fix the problem until they are forced to and even then, they'll try to muddle through it.

Great Info Conviction, Impressed by your knowledge.......Drop your aim, I want to ask you some things....

But yea man, it's hard to break popular opinion and what's being taught in schools. It's very similar in the medical industry. They are teaching drugs, surgery, while they also need to focus more on prevention and holistic treatment. Their is a reason why all these fruits and veggies, herbs are here!

But like the medical industy or leaders our sold on their own philosophy, this keynsian ish. But it is failing and it looks like they are going to continue to push it until we run everything into the ground! It's scary right now. Especially when you hear Billionare Investors like Jim Rogers, Robert Kiyosaki and then guys like Peter Schiff and Ron Paul saying something serious is on the horizon.

Looks we are gonna need hard assets, what is the paper going to be worth in 10 years?

[conviction]

Great Info Conviction, Impressed by your knowledge.......Drop your aim, I want to ask you some things....

But yea man, it's hard to break popular opinion and what's being taught in schools. It's very similar in the medical industry. They are teaching drugs, surgery, while they also need to focus more on prevention and holistic treatment. Their is a reason why all these fruits and veggies, herbs are here!

But like the medical industy or leaders our sold on their own philosophy, this keynsian ish. But it is failing and it looks like they are going to continue to push it until we run everything into the ground! It's scary right now. Especially when you hear Billionare Investors like Jim Rogers, Robert Kiyosaki and then guys like Peter Schiff and Ron Paul saying something serious is on the horizon.

Looks we are gonna need hard assets, what is the paper going to be worth in 10 years?

Thanks for the compliment, I haven't used my aim in years but i still have access its coburnius016, if you can catch me on here I would be happy to chat. But sounds like the medical industry has a bit of same problem as the economic schools. What bothers me the most is that you see Keynesians tout that people like Ron Paul, and other guys you mentioned, are dangerous ideologues but don't seem to realize that the practices they continue are ideological and furthermore misconstrued at more fundamental levels.

But yep, better invest in commodities like Kiyosaki suggests. IMO there is no complete financial portfolio without real commodity wealth (gold, silver, etc) ... just don't go buying bonds, thats a suckers bet

lol @ evil cronies... nah, i'm not saying those supporting gold are evil and never meant to imply that if it came across that way.

As for near zero percent interest rates, that's a dangerous game the Fed plays. No, I don't agree with how low the have been maintaining the interest rates But, at this point in time with how much things have changed over the past 10-20 years, I couldn't even tell you where the line should be for what would be called a "normal" interest rates.

Honestly and admittedly, I'm not an "expert" on this topic. Never had it in college, never been an econ professor nor have i ever run a financial institution so there's a lot I don't know. When it comes to this kind of discussion, I need to look up a lot of stuff, understand it and then see if I can make sense of the justification of all the points being made. I think that's my responsibility as an American voter. I don't have to be an "expert" of everything all of the time but I should try to figure things out when I need to and go from there.


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No offense taken lol, I was taking a little jab myself

I'm an econ student with some background, yet I don't claim to be on an expertise level quite yet but I plan to be there at some point. Many of the things you have pulled out I have read with similar ideological underpinnings, and I've understood them, and have regurgitated them for grades. I think I have a solid basis, and I understand you might not have to the same knowledge I have been able to acquire. I still hold onto my beliefs, I believe with some basic insight and fundamental understanding we can solve problems such as the ones imposed by the fed. I understand natural inclination is to protect status quo; change can difficult and frightening.

That said I find our current and continuation of Keynesian policies to be more so disturbing. Problem is we have been using 0% interest rates for some time and it still isn't enough. Maybe we need to go in to the negative -1% and give people money just to borrow some from the Fed because it isn't working. Keynesians still want the Fed to do more quantitative easing through others means but Fed has exhausted its resources. I think we can agree we are conflicted in uncertain times. By looks of this chart, even in our debt riddened Keynesian policies since WWII this sort of easing is unprecedented.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._effective.svg

I think our failed policies are catching up with us

On another note we need to make a thread about Paul Ryan the VP pick.

[Nevada_Ballin]

Thanks for the compliment, I haven't used my aim in years but i still have access its coburnius016, if you can catch me on here I would be happy to chat. But sounds like the medical industry has a bit of same problem as the economic schools. What bothers me the most is that you see Keynesians tout that people like Ron Paul, and other guys you mentioned, are dangerous ideologues but don't seem to realize that the practices they continue are ideological and furthermore misconstrued at more fundamental levels.

But yep, better invest in commodities like Kiyosaki suggests. IMO there is no complete financial portfolio without real commodity wealth (gold, silver, etc) ... just don't go buying bonds, thats a suckers bet



No offense taken lol, I was taking a little jab myself

I'm an econ student with some background, yet I don't claim to be on an expertise level quite yet but I plan to be there at some point. Many of the things you have pulled out I have read with similar ideological underpinnings, and I've understood them, and have regurgitated them for grades. I think I have a solid basis, and I understand you might not have to the same knowledge I have been able to acquire. I still hold onto my beliefs, I believe with some basic insight and fundamental understanding we can solve problems such as the ones imposed by the fed. I understand natural inclination is to protect status quo; change can difficult and frightening.

That said I find our current and continuation of Keynesian policies to be more so disturbing. Problem is we have been using 0% interest rates for some time and it still isn't enough. Maybe we need to go in to the negative -1% and give people money just to borrow some from the Fed because it isn't working. Keynesians still want the Fed to do more quantitative easing through others means but Fed has exhausted its resources. I think we can agree we are conflicted in uncertain times. By looks of this chart, even in our debt riddened Keynesian policies since WWII this sort of easing is unprecedented.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._effective.svg

I think our failed policies are catching up with us

On another note we need to make a thread about Paul Ryan the VP pick.

If we just adopted a real "pay as you go" policy, we'd be able to get out of this mess a little easier. I think that's the biggest failure of all at this point. But Congress can't seem to get to a point where that's just the flat out rule for anything they pass. Someone from one side or the other is always trying to sneak something else into a bill or simply oppose a bill because it wasn't from their camp.


A Paul Ryan thread.... i'm sure it'll pop up sooner or later.


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[conviction]

If we just adopted a real "pay as you go" policy, we'd be able to get out of this mess a little easier. I think that's the biggest failure of all at this point. But Congress can't seem to get to a point where that's just the flat out rule for anything they pass. Someone from one side or the other is always trying to sneak something else into a bill or simply oppose a bill because it wasn't from their camp.


A Paul Ryan thread.... i'm sure it'll pop up sooner or later.


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pay as you go would be a welcome change of pace... Whatever it takes to be more responsible. Unfortunately we are running on the idea of unlimited funds (thanks fed!). Agreed on how the two sides seems to always pester each and sneak stuff onto bills. Nothing ever seems to get done.

I got that thread up

[MonoxideChild]

I don't think I've ever been more confused by someone than I am with Paul Ryan. On one hand he likes Rage Against the Machine and Led Zeppelin and for the most part seems like he'd be one of those friends that you'd love.

On the other hand, politically, not a big fan. His budget was based around cutting Medicare and welfare etc. but then he wants to spend even MORE money on the military.

I do like him as a politician though. I don't agree with him on most things, but I never feel like he's misleading anyone. For whatever reason he doesn't seem as slimey and underhanded as the other guys in D.C. Of course you never know, but I think that's how things should be run.

[Nevada_Ballin]

I don't think I've ever been more confused by someone than I am with Paul Ryan. On one hand he likes Rage Against the Machine and Led Zeppelin and for the most part seems like he'd be one of those friends that you'd love.

On the other hand, politically, not a big fan. His budget was based around cutting Medicare and welfare etc. but then he wants to spend even MORE money on the military.

I do like him as a politician though. I don't agree with him on most things, but I never feel like he's misleading anyone. For whatever reason he doesn't seem as slimey and underhanded as the other guys in D.C. Of course you never know, but I think that's how things should be run.

He's a career politician, i.e., more of the same on what we've already been getting out of DC. He's what 42 y.o. and 20 years of his working life has been political on Cap Hill?

I will give him credit for putting something down on paper and saying "Here's an idea". That's a lot more than what most in Congress have done. Too bad I don't agree with his ideas on that paper.


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[xX SNAKE Xx]

[MonoxideChild]

Hey, see that little logo in the bottom left? Yeah...

[xX SNAKE Xx]

Hey, see that little logo in the bottom left? Yeah...

MOODY’S WARNS OF MASS CALIFORNIA MUNICIPAL BANKRUPTCIES:

The klaxon horn went off this evening for California municipal bondholders when Moody’s credit rating service issued a report stating that the plummeting financial condition of many California counties, cities, school districts and other government agencies will soon result in large numbers of municipal bankruptcy filings.

Concerned about their own potential liability for providing high ratings that encouraged conservative elderly Americans to invest in risky bonds; Moody’s announced they will undertake a wide-ranging review of municipal finances because of the growing insolvencies.

http://www.chrissstreetandcompany.co...-bankruptcies/

[theanalogkid]

MOODY’S WARNS OF MASS CALIFORNIA MUNICIPAL BANKRUPTCIES:

The klaxon horn went off this evening for California municipal bondholders when Moody’s credit rating service issued a report stating that the plummeting financial condition of many California counties, cities, school districts and other government agencies will soon result in large numbers of municipal bankruptcy filings.

Concerned about their own potential liability for providing high ratings that encouraged conservative elderly Americans to invest in risky bonds; Moody’s announced they will undertake a wide-ranging review of municipal finances because of the growing insolvencies.

http://www.chrissstreetandcompany.co...-bankruptcies/

Don't worry, California will high-speed rail themselves to prosperity.

[Nevada_Ballin]

Don't worry, California will high-speed rail themselves to prosperity.

We're expecting many Californians to highspeed rail their aszes over here to Nevada. They better bring their jobs with them because we don't have any here


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[MonoxideChild]

We're expecting many Californians to highspeed rail their aszes over here to Nevada. They better bring their jobs with them because we don't have any here


.

In all fairness, Vito and Sal pretty much thought, "Yup. No water for miles. Uneven, baked land. Ridiculous heat. Let's build a giant city."

[Nevada_Ballin]

In all fairness, Vito and Sal pretty much thought, "Yup. No water for miles. Uneven, baked land. Ridiculous heat. Let's build a giant city."

And it worked ,,,, for southern Nevada

Nevada isn't all about Las Vegas though but it's all anyone outside the state identifies it with.

Reno/Lake Tahoe is awesome which is why I live here and not there


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[xX SNAKE Xx]

Risk of US double-dip recession rises, warns Standard & Poor’s:

I was not aware we came out of it.

August 22, 2012 – ECONOMY – The odds the United States will slip back into recession next year have risen, ratings agency Standard & Poor’s said, citing risks from the European debt crisis and budget tightening at year-end. The US ratings firm raised the chance of the US falling into recession to 25 percent, up from a 20 percent chance estimated in February, as the world’s largest economy struggles to recover from a severe 2008-2009 slump. It also pointed to the looming possibility of the government being forced by existing law to severely cut spending and increase taxes on January 1, the so-called fiscal cliff that would crunch the economy.

http://theextinctionprotocol.wordpre...tandard-poors/