Cheese or Not Cheese: That is the Q

[VikingDave]

The better question is: to cry, or not to cry.

There is no cheese. Its merely an excuse to put
your mind at ease. Its the easy way out. Why
work to counter something, if its a cheat? If
its a cheat, wouldn't that make it un-counterable?
Since, nothing is uncounterable - there must be a
way, but what? How?

Your answer is one thing. Its not complex either.
Its to not be denied. Once you decide not to be
denied, you will adjust - naturally. Its the struggle
that defines us, and not our triumphs. You're at
your best in the face of adversity. How big is your
world?

I don't want to sound like I play Madden too much, but what is "poetry"?

[Sully]

The Sim community is much stronger then the tourny community.Theres a reason why EA added Random Gap Blitzing,THeres a reason why they toned down the high pass.They recognize 95% of the madden community doesn't want to have to deal with that BS.Don't you ever get sick of a Win at all costs attitude GAV? You guys would put Randy Moss at TE if the game let you...

[moos3p]

The Sim community is much stronger then the tourny community.Theres a reason why EA added Random Gap Blitzing,THeres a reason why they toned down the high pass.They recognize 95% of the madden community doesn't want to have to deal with that BS.Don't you ever get sick of a Win at all costs attitude GAV? You guys would put Randy Moss at TE if the game let you...

Trips bunch all wr package will let you put Moss at TE.
There is an easy counter to that, also. So what is the problem with that

[Sully]

Tough to argue with a guy who thinks putting a WR at TE is not cheesy...You win

[GAV]

The Sim community is much stronger then the tourny community.Theres a reason why EA added Random Gap Blitzing,THeres a reason why they toned down the high pass.They recognize 95% of the madden community doesn't want to have to deal with that BS.Don't you ever get sick of a Win at all costs attitude GAV? You guys would put Randy Moss at TE if the game let you...

Nah. There's stuff I'll do, and stuff I won't. The point isn't to
do this or that. The point is to adjust to this or that. You'll
never hear me complain about anything. Its my job to adjust.
If I can't, then my opponent should continue to do what they
are doing. Its on me to respond. Straight players also generally
don't all have the same views on what is, and is not, acceptable.
Some may think the high pass is OK to the WRs, but not to
the TE. Others complain if you bump and run. Some complain
if you go deep, despite the fact that they keep creeping up.
Others think short passing is cheese. Certain players complain
if you blitz alot. Every straight player has a different interpretation,
and it always favours their playstyle. They use complaining to
cover up their deficiencies. I complain about nothing, because
everything is OK by me. If something works, you should go with
it. I'll play my game. You play yours. Lets see where it goes.


BTW - Madden IS a video game. You are not Alex Smith. You
are not coach Sully. You are Sully - VIDEO GAME PLAYER!!!

[GAV]

Trips bunch all wr package will let you put Moss at TE.
There is an easy counter to that, also. So what is the problem with that

Tough to argue with a guy who thinks putting a WR at TE is not cheesy...You win

You lose the blocking a TE offers, and it shows you that
it's a 4 WR (no TE) set. What's cheesy about that?

[GAV]

guys who play strict sim dont know what its like to bump into some guys you knew from high school, and youre pretty confident about your game, and he challenges you for fifty..
and i figure hes a dumbass so i got this..
then he comes through with mike vick and he schools the hell out of my defense with rollouts and hurry up and you know how it goes..
and my friends and his friends laugh and watch me give up 50 bucks just like that..
then the elitist sim mentality goes right out the window/

i mean how can you actually beleive youre good if some moron can come out and beat you by 30 points with only 3 plays..?

Great post.

[VikingDave]

The point is to adjust to this or that. You'll
never hear me complain about anything. Its my job to adjust.
If I can't, then my opponent should continue to do what they
are doing. Its on me to respond.

I totally agree. The reason I love to play online is to see how I match up - how my gameplan either works or find its weaknesses and fix them. This is much of the joy of the game. When someone comes out with something I have a hard time stopping, I find success in learning how to stop it - even if it takes me the whole game and I lose as a result.

It makes me a better player, and since the strategy is what I love, it makes me enjoy the game even more. I know that some of what you see online is crazy and perhaps even cheese, but I love the idea of seeing if my strategy is strong enough to overcome these one or two play wonders.

[ccbill1]

Great post.

How is that a great post?

Guys that play strict sim don't know what it's like to be humiliated by getting hustled for $50.

LOL....Wow, that's deep.

[GAV]

How is that a great post?

Guys that play strict sim don't know what it's like to be humiliated by getting hustled for $50.

LOL....Wow, that's deep.

Because "sim" players that think they are better than
they are learn a valuable lesson from this. It also
happens alot more than most people think. I was
$600 up on the year last year, and I'm not the champ.

I mean how can you actually believe you're good if some moron can come out and beat you by 30 points with only 3 plays..?

[sliqnes]

I totally agree. The reason I love to play online is to see how I match up - how my gameplan either works or find its weaknesses and fix them. This is much of the joy of the game. When someone comes out with something I have a hard time stopping, I find success in learning how to stop it - even if it takes me the whole game and I lose as a result.

It makes me a better player, and since the strategy is what I love, it makes me enjoy the game even more. I know that some of what you see online is crazy and perhaps even cheese, but I love the idea of seeing if my strategy is strong enough to overcome these one or two play wonders.

Thats the way i think!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ccbill1]

Because "sim" players that think they are better than
they are learn a valuable lesson from this. It also
happens alot more than most people think. I was
$600 up on the year last year, and I'm not the champ.

I mean how can you actually believe you're good if some moron can come out and beat you by 30 points with only 3 plays..?

The true "sim" players could care less about winning and losing. They won't get hustled on sucker bets because "sim" players want to play a game that simulates football, not win money.

If a sim player sees that you have a play that you can run that he can't stop, he would be more than happy to declare you the winner of the game but would prefer not to waste his time playing against that single play for 20 to 30 minutes. For the true "sim" player, it's about the diversity of the experience, not being the best darn Madden player you can be. That doesn't mean the "sim" player won't want to learn how to stop the play giving him fits, but he doesn't want to do that right now. Not in the game. OK, you've mastered the quick pass / deep lob / counter triple combo and can call audibles on me until my fingers can't keep up with yours, that's great and I accept that, now can I enjoy my gaming experience too?

Again, I keep telling you not to put whiners in the same class as sim ballers. The goals and objectives are totally different. When your type grows up, experiences real life and its real problems and realizes that people want different things from their free time (which in some cases is a sim gaming experience), you'll understand where the sim player is coming from. Until then, keep quoting and misapplying empty phrases like winning isn't everything; it's the only thing and feel good about yourself. Ignorance is truly bliss.

That said, I am sure you're a good person and a fine player. My only beef with you is your definition of a "sim" player.

[Sully]

Extrmely Well put CC.Don't you tourny guys ever get sick of running the same 3 or 4 plays on offense and defense? running no huddle all game and audibling to one of those 3 or 4 plays depending on the opponents defense? Is that fun for you? Well if doing that makes you happy then by all means enjoy it.

[GAV]

The true "sim" players could care less about winning and losing. They won't get hustled on sucker bets because "sim" players want to play a game that simulates football, not win money.

I disagree, but the sim players I've run into always complain
when they lose. When they win, everything is hunkie-dorey.
Sully is probably the only exception I've found.

If a sim player sees that you have a play that you can run that he can't stop, he would be more than happy to declare you the winner of the game but would prefer not to waste his time playing against that single play for 20 to 30 minutes. For the true "sim" player, it's about the diversity of the experience, not being the best darn Madden player you can be. That doesn't mean the "sim" player won't want to learn how to stop the play giving him fits, but he doesn't want to do that right now. Not in the game. OK, you've mastered the quick pass / deep lob / counter triple combo and can call audibles on me until my fingers can't keep up with yours, that's great and I accept that, now can I enjoy my gaming experience too?

Ok, but I enjoy the diversity of styles. Your playstyle is basically an
extension of your personality. My style is to establish something,
then build on my gameplan as my opponent adjusts. I boxed for
10 years, and practiced Pa Qua for another 9 - and my gameplan in that
was very similar. Why should I limit myself because someone frowns
upon my playstyle? I shouldn't and I won't. I'm gonna be me, and my
opponent has every right to be him.

Again, I keep telling you not to put whiners in the same class as sim ballers. The goals and objectives are totally different. When your type grows up, experiences real life and its real problems and realizes that people want different things from their free time (which in some cases is a sim gaming experience), you'll understand where the sim player is coming from. Until then, keep quoting and misapplying empty phrases like winning isn't everything; it's the only thing and feel good about yourself. Ignorance is truly bliss.

Winning is important to everyone. Human beings are competitive and
even the most ego-less of us like to succeed. Sim play sounds almost
like a Civil War re-enactment to me. Are you playing or not?

That said, I am sure you're a good person and a fine player. My only beef with you is your definition of a "sim" player.

I have nothing against you either dawg. I just think that your failing
to see the big picture. When you look at a tree, do you only see the tree
- or do you see the blue sky holding the hot sun that feeds each of its
leaves to make home for the ecosystem? Working toward being like water
is to let go of stress, and be. Working toward being rigid in your thoughts
- always judging - and questioning - is to lead a life of stress. Let it go,
and your world will grow in ways you never thought it could.

[UnKn0wN41510]

At firsy I got to admit when my opp runs a play I cant stop I would call him a cheeser...

but now I would just think of a defense that would best to stop it and adjust some of my guys and most of the time I would stop them...